3-Dimensional Movement: What You Probably Weren’t Taught About the Human Body
Kaleena
Welcome back to the Gymnazo podcast. I’m your host, Kaleena Ruskin and I am joined with our owner, Founder CEO, movement specialist extraordinaire, Michael Hughes. Nice. Today we are discussing three dimensional programming, which is a topic that I think we’re both super excited to actually dive into and talk about and how it’s revolutionized our training styles. And really what Gymnazo truly is all about, and that kind of foundation for that. So
Michael Hughes
Welcome to the Gymnazo podcast where you get to peek behind the curtains of what it takes to create and run a seven figure fitness facility that ranks in the top 5% of boutique fitness studios for revenue. But to be honest, that’s the least important thing about us. Founded by me, Michael Hughes, Gymnazo has created an ecosystem of services that blend performance with restoration techniques, and attracts top coaches to facility hosted by its owners, Paden, and myself and our top coaches, this podcast shares our best practices on everything, from how to build a sustainable fitness business, to how to program for maximum results to how to build a hybrid training module that’s online. And in person. We have marketing secrets, movement, innovation, and breaking down trends in the industry. If you’re a fitness professional, or a fitness business owner, this is where you learn how to sharpen your skills and to see maximum results.
Kaleena
Let’s just jump right into this.
Michael Hughes
Super stoked. Like, this is the topic
Kaleena
a little bit, Michael. So what are straight up? Let’s break it down for us. What are the three planes of motion? What is 3d programming?
Michael Hughes
Okay, so the page one right page one Kinesiology book, there’s no there’s no such thing as a Kinesiology book. But right, so you sort of three planes of motion forward and backwards sagittal plane, side to side, from a plane, rotational plane, or the transverse plane, three planes motions, simple as it gets. But that’s where it stops. That’s where the most of the train just stops. I understand that there. Sometimes people call it a coronal plane versus another word, but you know, sagittal, frontal transverse, we tried to break it up as much as as simple as possible before going back satisfied, rotational and programming for it is really simple. Just move the body in those three cardinal motions. It’s like paint a picture with red, blue and yellow. Sounds pretty easy, right? I mean, it’s really simple. It’s really simple in concept. But to apply it, you have to unthink to uneducated and re educate like, Wait a minute. I mean, I don’t know, I don’t want to go too deep, too fast. But it’s really that simple is that we have these motions available to our body in physics. Why don’t we train that way? Why don’t we train that way? I shouldn’t be asking questions here. But you know, so that was kind of my rhetorical question. In a sense,
Kaleena
totally. I mean, what, I can’t speak from the Kinesiology standpoint, because I was actually an animal science major, true. But I’ve always been an athlete. Yeah. But what are people traditionally taught in school about the three planes of motion other than just there’s three of them? You know, what does it dive deep? Deeper and anything or the literally just stops it? These are three planes.
Michael Hughes
Yeah, and I’m gonna speak from you know, I’m gonna college for a while longer than I want to admit. But in the early 2000s, which is still the day the internet, Google searches will still will still there. That’s where it kind of stopped. But we recognize that there was these three planks, emotions, it’s like the first topic that we ever discussed, like page one of the book. And it was went to biomechanics, which college, high school biomechanics, it’s really too simple. It’s like, oh, this is the hinge joint. This is the lever. This is the fulcrum and that and that’s just that’s not enough. Right? Yeah. Because we talked about how the elbow joint primarily moves in flexion. extension, which would be more than more than basically sagittal plane. Yeah. Right. And the ball and socket joint of the shoulders and the hips, will they they’ll have they have all new directions. On pure, right, but for the most part, but we didn’t really talk about how it can really go through the set frontal and transverse planes, we certainly said like abduction, and adduction, and internal external rotation. Those words were spoken, but it wasn’t put into context, at least for me, at my college, which was, you know, we’re not talking about like Brown University, you know, California State School, but was known for physical therapy. You know, not USC, physical therapy, excuse me. But that’s kind of where it’s at. We didn’t really talk about like, oh, wait a minute. This is how the bones can move. And here’s what the purple receptors can do. and how it trains and conditions the body and it’s not practice makes perfect. It’s practice makes permanent. It didn’t even touch that. It was just this is the way it is. This is the machines that we use. Here’s what studies have shown. And this is where we’re gonna go. It was this is our past education. Let’s continue that education. Yeah. And honestly, then I had no clue. It was not even a thought process because I trusted those who were teaching me. Yeah.
Kaleena
And after college, what personal training certification did you go through?
Michael Hughes
Ooh. So in college, I got the ISA International Sports Science Association. Started personal training when I was a sophomore in college. Like I should probably get a job in the field that I want to go to. Yeah. Being an Abercrombie and Fitch selling minimum wage. Yeah. Anyways, different story different.
Kaleena
Were you were you front desk or were you I was a poster boy, I
Michael Hughes
was front room. Yeah, front room, it was just basically a poster.
Kaleena
So you probably have a little bit of like brain damage from inhaling all of those perfumes and colognes her.
Michael Hughes
Luckily, the clones then was not the Cologne now fierce is what it is. And I really liked the first one, and then they changed it and haven’t changed it in a while going on more than a decade.
Kaleena
Yeah. I mean, you can smell that stuff from about a quarter mile away. You’re like your stamp a crummy store. So
Michael Hughes
it still resonates with me. It still centers memories tied to anyways. Anyway, everybody,
Kaleena
what do you you know, going through SSA, you know, what was the typical training
Michael Hughes
again, first page of the book, in a sense, you know, took the human body and cut it up into three pieces. Yeah. And that again, that was it. And it was really mind boggling. Like that’s like the crux of the movement. But they put it across the entire body. Yeah, so we just made a think like, Oh, cool. All right. So it’s just it’s, it’s like, oh, it’s just more of a reference to how the body can be described. Yeah. Versus joint by joint movement by movement, muscle by muscle, even neurological pathway, even different certain nerves getting turned on activated in certain movement patterns. Yeah. Like, didn’t even touch that. So, so isolate, which again, is isn’t not designed for that. I don’t want to beat up ISIS. It’s just that it’s called entry level certification. Yeah. And then going into grad school, even I even took some some physical therapy courses in undergraduate. And it was awesome. We talked about like, biomechanics of the foot. And I was like, Oh, this is what I’m here. Yeah. But again, didn’t talk about how, you know, really, the mid tarsal bones really get locked up through inversion E version, which is a combination of frontal plane and transverse plane motion. Yeah, didn’t touch didn’t touch that. Yeah. Just I don’t know. Maybe I didn’t dive deep enough. You know, for all those people who’ve gone to physical therapy school and, you know, chiropractic school, and maybe they dive into that. But for my undergraduate not even a hint.
Kaleena
So tell us about when you realized, I think there’s more to this like, what was your first like, mind blowing intro to that’s different. That’s what is that? Yeah, we have a 3d movie. Literally.
Michael Hughes
I’m in my memory right now. Picture in memory. I was that our local big box gym here we’ll name it Kenny club fitness. And it was after a conversation I had with someone who had already been drinking the juice. You know, someone’s already been kind of mind opened in a sense. And I said, well, so like, what is this three planes of motion? She says, Michael, honestly. Just do a movement in three different planes of motion. I’m like, like, I like a plank. She’s like, Yeah, sure. That’s a good start. I remember Lily going to the blue mats, behind the little palm leaf tree thing divider because the stretching area is different than the other area. You gotta you got to segregate them up. Cardio is different than strength, segregate those things. Very important. Sorry, traditional fitness. And I remember doing literally a sagittal plane hip drive, which it looks like you’re humping the ground. Yep. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. It’s very functional. I decided to hit motion. And literally take my pelvis keeping it flat. Like I’m going to not spill water. It can hold the glass on my pelvis and slide it left or right. And then turning it right pocket turns down to the ground, left pocket goes up on the ground and vice versa. And I was like, Oh, that’s it. I think that’s pretty simple. Yeah. And it’s that dance. Pretty simple. Yeah, that’s that’s the, that’s a pelvis. Going through all three planes of motion. I didn’t really talk about us individual muscle or individual joint. That’s many joints. thoracic spine, lumbar spine. Both acid tableland. Both the knees are spinning, the ankles are spinning the female. Everything spins. Yeah. Even the shoulder spin. Yeah, so that was my first introduction into three planes of motion movement. And it was cool because I was like, why I’m feeling so much more of my core than a static Eisah Leishan hold don’t look at anybody weird plank. You know? gunner’s mate amazing is like I feel my I feel more oblique Center have ever felt before it felt felt like my lateral glutes open up you know, like that I was like wow I feel my lateral hips talking a little bit and I feel I feel my my my lats working so well my lats are working with my core with my legs.
Kaleena
Yeah. Well, you’re moving through motions. So inherently your tissues have to work harder to decelerate and accelerate motion every time you change direction going up and down, going from left to right, run rotating left to right.
Michael Hughes
Again, from a basic certification. I mean, even a deep dive I was studying CSCs nothing. Yeah, just bring it up. Now. I’m sure their authors knew it. But they didn’t talk about it. We started a in depth level. Yeah.
Kaleena
So then, okay, we discovered a 3d hip drive. Right? So what next? Like where did your brain go from there? Obviously, you’d like this feels better this or this feels different. I feel more what’s what’s the next step? Did you start straight away? Like, okay, how do I 3d this? How do we do that? And then we got to dive into the grants. Yeah. So
Michael Hughes
you know, eventually the story goes into, you know, getting my fellowship, you know, the cases, but then it was really kind of taken to what we consider are what we call our 3d lunge, matrix, right? And whenever we use word matrix, which is a bit of three pattern movement, or three or six patterns, hence the matrix. We’re not Neo fans in ascension, you know, blue pill, Red Pill stuff, but a matrix of movements. And it was so crazy, because I remember doing like being shown a lunge matrix. I was like, okay, lunging forward, easy peasy. Got lateral lunge. Alright, a little bit a little bit different. But super simple. And the other four were like, What did you say? How about like, that’s weird. Yeah, totally. And it’s like, if you really break it down, it’s not weird. You do it every single day. Yes. Every single day you do those not that big of a range of motion. But literally the same biomechanics? Absolutely, literally. So let’s talk about that. So Ford lunge, pretty, pretty simple lateral lunge, you know, pretty simple talk about our right foot. But then going into what we call a common transverse plane, where your right foot opens up to the right, that’s just called turning around in your kitchen. Yep. That simple. And one leg stays put as the other leg travels first. And there’s relatively external rotation happening at both hips. Once an open stance ones in connected to the ground, close, open chain, close chain river simple. And then we’ll go to the uncommon, which is the ones we do less common, right? It was that simple. Like, oh, what’s an uncommon person’s comments? You just don’t do it that commonly. Okay. Simple. Interesting. Yeah. So I’ll go post your lunch and the post, your lunch was like, Ooh, it’s like, Wait a minute. So if you think about yourself listening during the post your lunch more than likely, you’re let’s go right foot is going backwards. And you’re putting your toe on the ground first. Yeah, and we would call that a not a lunch habit that we would call that a posterior toe tap, you know? And it’s like, well, wait a minute. So this is getting deep dive. You can cut me off at any time here. But what’s the definition of a lunch? And that’s, you know,
Kaleena
I think it’s biasing weight onto one side. Yeah, exactly.
Michael Hughes
Right. It’s literally weight shifting to a flat foot. Just a good step. Yeah. That’s why we lunch so often here, because it’s the most common drill that any person does in real life. Right? You transfer your weight to a flat foot. forward lunge, we do that sideways lunge, we do that. So what would be the definition of a backwards on? So it’s a flat foot? Post your your weight shift? Right? Yeah, so you do that. And then lunch at lunch looks a lot different, your range of motion is a lot smaller,
Kaleena
it’s a lot more challenging purposively Because we’re not used to moving backwards I in transitioning that weight to a back foot, right.
Michael Hughes
But we do sit down backwards on a chair or a couch. That’s very true. I know. I know. But we don’t think you know, but you just fall there’s no deceleration called
Kaleena
the plot, we get to a certain range of motion, then it’s a trust fall to the rest of the couch or chair.
Michael Hughes
Right? So those glutes, hamstrings that are you know, really experienced have to experience that deceleration. And that loading is we call it fancy word for E centric muscle contraction. And it’s weird. And people used to toe out and it gets all you know, that’s another topic. And then a crossover. So right foot goes right. We call that a lateral 90 degree lunge. But what about right foot going left? On common final time to come as super crazy adduction at the hip joints, and very weird, but we just call that a great fine. Move. Right? And that’s part of a grapevine. Yep. Or Kerio. Carioca, wherever you want to call it braided run. Right? We do that all the time in sports. We have been doing that since it’s a warm up. Yeah. For your warmup as I did, then baseball and like fourth third grade, crossover run. Yeah. And we do it Often when we’re trying not to fall over, or when we just need to take a little funky step, because we’re moving someday it’s it’s common, but it’s not as an therefore, yeah. And then instead of right foot rotating to the right, as I just take my whole body that I just can’t get, your right foot rotates left. And it’s a, essentially, it’s an internal rotation of your stance, lay your lay that’s not moving. And it’s just this turning to the left with your right foot. And again, we do that all the time. Anytime you turn down a hallway, if you do that move, walking around a corner every time we walk around the corner, perfectly stated all the time. Yep. But it’s super awkward for people that can’t figure it out at a greater range of motion.
Kaleena
Yeah, to have to actually load into it and not just flow through it, or ambulate through it. Yeah, they have to actually load into that super challenging, right? Super awkward at first, right? Like, what is this?
Michael Hughes
And what’s crazy about it is what this lunge matrix with three dimensional training, you get hip flexion, hip extension, hip, a reduction, hip ad reduction, same those a little differently. So you can hear hip, internal and external rotation, you get all six hip joint motions, and emotions and ankle motions, you get everything done. Yeah, in six moves,
Kaleena
it’s a sweet way to actually dive right into like how the gray Institute teaches three planes and motions and AFS and taking those six lunges and turning it into what we know as our 3d maps, right? Yeah, that’s awesome. And how that 3d We can evaluate every joint at the body and get in with any of those motions and get a complete analysis.
Michael Hughes
Yeah, it’s crazy. It’s great. So gray Institute, that’s where that’s kind of like, how do I call that? You know, they are like, well apply functional science, I think it’s very simple. Apply function science is the study of the physical sciences. Cool. So what are physical sciences? Well, there’s quite a few of them, but it’s called physics. And what are the truths? Right? You know, not the theories. And even though technically, gravity is a theory, you know, I’m going to drop this pin 100 at a time, 100 times it’s going to fall, we’ll call it a principle for the sake of the matter. And then the biological principles. Okay. So our physiology or by by our biology, and then our behavioral sciences, what are the truth there? You know, what are the things you know, how do people think, move, educate, encouraged. And that’s what it is. It’s a, it’s a collection of methodologies. That’s what I really love about what the grandson has packaged so well. They package it really well, though, for physical therapists really well. And we just took it said, thank you very, very much. You guys are amazing. rockstars and we’ve packed it for the trainer. Yeah, that’s it. There’s a lot more to that. But you know, that’s provision so I want you to answer that question, if that’s okay. Yeah. Because you’re the I mean, I’m the first one to do it. But you had to kind of learn from us and then went to them. I did so um, but
Kaleena
I felt like I had the cheat codes because I got I had all of the the experience prior to starting my my you know, AFS journey. And I had my only background was in strength and conditioning from what I knew from high school and then from college, collegiate soccer, but yeah, collegiate Division one. Yeah. So, you know, we had strength and conditioning coaches. I loved lifting I loved like, any anything deadlifts, back squats, box jumps. I loved all that was primary sagittal plane. And my first experience, you know, getting into Gymnazo. Because I was, I was in like, a desk job that I hated that I was trying to get out of. Yeah. And I, you know, I was coaching a bunch of soccer at the time, I was running my own strength and conditioning program at the high school with the girls soccer team that I was coaching. And my now husband, then boyfriend was like, why don’t you get paid to do this? Because I was doing it for free. And, you know, it was fun. I liked it. But you know, I was getting up at six in the morning to coach like, for girls not get paid for it because I wanted to get paid. And this was okay. All right. So I started going through NASM. And I was kind of looking for coaching jobs and personal training jobs. And I happened to have soccer parents say, Hey, I know this couple who owns a gym and they just posted that they’re looking for interns, said, okay, cool. I’ll go check it out. You know, the beauty of a small town is you get everybody knows everybody. It’s like, okay, I’ll check it out. And I remember looking at the Gymnazo website, and I was like, this makes sense. Like, this actually looks cool. It wasn’t your traditional kind of meathead gym. It’s like, an I am a science dork. Anyway, so that appealed to me right off the bat. Yeah. So getting in and I remember, you know, I did my homework on what what? You know, I remembered all the reviews. I read through the website, you know, to hear to see what the deal was like what the though? Like I have a philosophy they have a mission statement they have. They have ideas and theology is based in science and three planes of motion was like, well, this, this is pretty rad. And it just made so much sense I made so much sense so much more than than just traditional strength and conditioning. And as somebody who is, is an athlete, multifaceted athlete, and you know, I played Division One soccer, but I’m an avid golfer, I love to trail run, I surf, I snowboard go, this feels more like sports. And this feels more natural than just moving straight up and down. And just doing deadlifts and just doing kettlebell swings, I still don’t get me wrong, I still love all those things. But three places movement was like, whoa, this makes so much more sense to how we actually train and, and that was something when I got introduced to the gray Institute when Gary was saying, or Doug would say like, it should an exercise should look smell and feel like your sport. Like, that makes a lot of sense. And that was that was really cool to like, kind of connect those bridges and, and then get into that and go yeah, this is what my hip goes through when I hit a soccer ball. But there’s 1000 different ways to strike a soccer ball. And it’s not the same biomechanics for each one, you know, different, you know, different different ways to pass the ball. Different ways to dribble the ball require different skill sets, and different motions from my foot, my ankle, my hips, you know, my thoracic spine, even, you know, this makes who a war sense to go through all of this, and how should things should be moving, rather than just kind of a more regimented, strict, this is just how we train. Because what also happened in college, and I love to live and I’m super competitive. So when winter came around, because winter is the offseason, that was bulk up season. And I did I was successful in that. Good bulk season, but then we’d go play soccer this spring, and I’m probably 1015 pounds heavier, some of it muscle, some of it beer season, you know, but I’m probably a little bit heavier than I was. We’ve hardly did any 3d training, definitely no mobility, definitely not a lot of agility work, and I got hurt. I was as strong as I could possibly I was maxing out, you know, top of the charts. And I’m not like the biggest player on the team. I’m five, five, and I’m getting hurt every spring because my body goes, you just went from a strict regimented lifting program powerlifting program. And now you want me to go be agile, mobile and explosive. And I lacked all of those things
Michael Hughes
in multiple angulations
Kaleena
in multiple angulations. And we we didn’t train that way. didn’t train that way at all. I don’t think I did one lateral lunge in all of college. It was. Yeah. Which is like, yeah, and mind blowing now. So you know, getting introduced to AFS and getting introduced to 3d. I was like, Yeah, I do that motion all the time. That transverse plane lunge. That’s a drop step to go change direction, you know, exactly. And I go that makes so much sense for injury prevention for just mobility purposes. Like that makes way more sense than just and
Michael Hughes
proprioceptive. Like, yes, your body’s used to the motion. Yeah. It’s not crazy. It’s not funky. It’s not weird. It’s not like,
Kaleena
it just does. Yeah. And my body never felt compromised, it felt like oh, yeah, we we kind of know what this is. It just needed a little bit more proprioceptive awakening, to really master, you know, actual load bearing and heavy heavyweights now in all three planes.
Michael Hughes
Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned the the 3d maps. So that’s certification, movement analysis, three dimensional movement analysis, performance systems, great Institute, didn’t we use that for our warmup we use that for our movement, our movement assessment. And that, just to give you some comparison, that’s like using great cooks. And cash flow while going blank totally on this one movement screen. I’m gonna call comparable. But in the sense, it’s the same ballpark, right? Any movement screening thing. And why we use 3d maps is because you get to look at every single joint. You know, what, 66, joints, 60s, major joints, we’re going to see them on all three planes motion, standing upright, we can modify it if it’s a chair bound athlete, for if it’s a swimmer, right, we can modify it for golfer we can baseball we can modify for anything. That’s a cool part about it. Because we just put ourselves in those positions and then do the same motion patterns such as essentially. And we can see how everything flexes, extend does internally externally rotates apdex and add ducks. In gravitational load. Yes. Which changes everything. Yeah, everything
Kaleena
that made that made a lot of sense to me, too. And we talked about, you know, when we look at the textbooks and how they evaluated how joints moved, how muscles worked, this is crazy. A lot of it was on machines. When was a dead person on a table? Yeah, or Denver’s not a table. And it was like, Well, this is how this works. This is how this works. except like, but they’re dead on the table. They’re not moving in there. There’s certainly no, there’s no massive momentum. There’s no gravity. And so how can Well, there’s gravity just it’s influenced correct. But it’s differently because most of our most of our performance things aren’t upright functions accurate. You know, so how do you say the quad works like this lying down on a table versus the quad works like this when you’re running those two entirely different things?
Michael Hughes
In fact, almost the opposite? Yeah. Yeah, that’s a crazy thing.
Kaleena
It is. And so I mean, there’s plenty of benefits to isolating out tissues and saying this that works out works. But wouldn’t you only look at it from an isolated point of view? We’re very multi complex creatures and multi dimensional creatures when it comes to movement. So how can we say that the isolated test is relative to upright, functional, multi dimensional multi loading movement? Yeah, kind of deep dive on something real fast.
Michael Hughes
Okay, thanks. So, for those for those listening, it’s not just that simple as three planes of motion, right? Yes. I mean, we’re talking about gross motor patterns, or we’ve talked about global patterns, right? It’s clear that I’ve been to local patterns or isolated patterns, you know, some of you probably mean, maybe potentially quite freaked out right now. It’s like, Oh, you just shouldn’t throw the knee into rotation. You shouldn’t throw the lower back rotation? I’m say, yes, you’re right. 100%. Right. But there’s context to that. It’s not, you know, you can’t just do a blind statement as we’re doing blind statements. But there’s more to it. And we know that. So here’s an example. The knee, I’m not going to get too crazy on you, loves flexion. Extension, loves it. It’s designed for that. But it also can, and should go through the other two planes of motion valgus and Varus, or a reduction, 80, adduction. And internal external rotation. How it does that, though, is very important. Yes, very important, especially the rotation piece, because the knee needs to rotate. But there’s called in sync and out of sync, or both TIB fib and femur rotate in the same direction at the same time at the same speed, relatively speaking. And they don’t. And when they go the opposite direction, at different speeds. With no ability to decelerate, well, you have a problem? Yeah. And that’s not something that you should probably train your client to do under those loads, because you’re just not going to manage it. Correct. But on the other side of the spectrum, shouldn’t you train it to be proprioceptively aware of that? So it can do all that it hasn’t its power to stop that from happening. Physics or physics? Sometimes getting hit by a bus is not preventable? Right, but what are those things that are preventable? You know, it’s really having that mindset, like we’re gonna do everything we possibly can in the laws of physics. So we prove so it’s not injury prevention, it’s injury avoidance. And so it’s understanding that then he has the capacity to add a sink, rotate a few degrees, yes. And we should learn how to control that very appropriately, very intelligently. Not just like blindly, here’s a kettlebell, swing and start spinning it in circles and figure it out. That’s, that’s the way it is. It’s not responsible. It’s not ethical. It’s not intelligent. So don’t just go do that. Right. Training. Conditioning is a progressive overload process, but not just from muscles, from bones, from nerves, from mental mindset. So I had to kind of put that in there. Because we’re just talking about we’re rotating through the knee. Yes. Contact dependent. It’s not about the context. So sorry. My soapbox. Very important soapbox. In my mind, though.
Kaleena
So yeah, I mean, it makes sense. I mean, like when we just look at talking about, you know, the common transverse plane step, we’re going to get that out of sync femur is going to spin faster than TIB fib, right of the planted leg, right? But what, what speed you’re going out at what range of motion you’re going at, and depending on what you’re trying to do with it, like the context completely matters. And if the tissues have the capacity to do it, yeah, and you can give the tissue the tissue that capacity you could teach it to do it at those higher speeds, higher volumes. But you don’t start there.
Michael Hughes
Right? Yeah, so just very important three planes of motion where you are nuts about it. Yeah, fanatics but there is such thing as calling starting from success.
Kaleena
Yeah. I mean, we get even dive into what coupling and tripling is. i Yeah, Leno because we broke it down into three planes. But we said it’s more complex than that, because it’s it’s always multi dimensional. It is not just pure plane.
Michael Hughes
It’s actually never well, it’s never done Never say never, but
Kaleena
you’re certainly going to you’re certainly gonna have planes in motion that are more oh gosh, what’s the word I’m looking for? more prevalent, you know, with it was a interior lunge into your lunch but you’re still gonna get minor degrees of lateral flexion and rotation from it. from somewhere else in the body from the ankle from the knee from the hip. Yeah, and
Michael Hughes
I’ve mentioned this before in previous podcasts, but like an anterior lunch, yes, the body is moving forward. But you have to look at the micro motions the foot when it lands at prone. It’s yeah, it can supinate to depends on what surface you’re on. But probably student supination is a combination of movements of all three dorsiflexion. Maybe for running crazy down downhills, plantar flexion, right, but it’s still flexion. And then there’s going to be EE version, or inversion, which is going to be a combination of frontal plane and transverse plane, right? And to understand, like, this was the big like, Aha motion moment for me. And I’m gonna, I’m gonna say this book, this context before, but like sagittal plane or frontal plane, gravity will throw you to the ground. If you can’t control it. There’s a tipping point, you can’t stop that tipping point you’re down. But rotational movement is perpendicular to gravity. Therefore, it cannot throw you to the ground. Right? If you isolate it, right. Yeah, it is not gravity dependent. Yeah. Therefore, it’s free movement. So therefore, when you look at all power, sports, our activities, rotation is the common I mean, not everywhere, but it’s the common denominator. Yeah. I’m like, Oh my gosh, like that, like blew my mind. So how do you train for rotation? When you swing a baseball bat more you cook a soccer ball more? You know, you go bowling more? What do you do in the training facility? You got to rewrite how you program? The rewrite it? Yeah,
Kaleena
well, they tell you to resist rotation in gym setting, and that will somehow make you stronger at rotation. It’s gonna
Michael Hughes
make you stronger. But you’re what? Resisting rotation? Yeah, but what if you need more if you
Kaleena
have to swing a baseball bat, you need rotation? I
Michael Hughes
know, the golf club that that quote from grains didn’t really you know, it’s just physics, right? They didn’t yet I love about the grains, but they didn’t invent who says that? They would not invent anything. We’re just patching it together so you can understand the complexity and the awesomeness. the awesomeness of this world. And the missed opportunities.
Kaleena
Yeah. Yeah. If you are an athlete, or you train athletes, should you incorporate rotational strength training, training with weights in rotation?
Michael Hughes
And that’s a big, that’s a really broad statement. Right? Yeah. So on top of the need that right? Cause a context. But if you say no, then I’m going to beat you. My team is going to beat you. Yeah. Like, okay, real quick, right. So during our 3d maps is so cool with any like high school athlete, especially a high school athlete, that’s like Junior Varsity, varsity, actually, it works for anybody, especially this. Okay, sorry, it works for everybody, especially when they play sports competitively. When I do a movement analysis on them, and I know they can’t do let’s say a right open rotation, which is 135 degrees, open rotation, you know, give it you know, it’s a different on the on the left side of the compass, but 135 degrees, open rotation, and they’re like, miserable, going one, one way to foot pivots, didn’t have the coordination. I see the basketball player, I’m like, I’m gonna beat you so good and bad. And they look at me like go right, say, I know, now I know where you’re not good movement. Yeah. And I’m gonna drive to that side all day long. And you’re either gonna beat me in the beginning, and then fatigue out in the end. Yeah. Or you’re just, I’m just going to beat you from the get go. Because you just you just, you’re, you’re our motor moron in a way to say that direction. Or if they’re miserable at a post your lunch, I’m gonna come right at you. Yeah, every time. And until you stumbled, then I’m gonna change a direction. It’s like, it’s so it’s this amazing insight. It’s like reading the third base signs of baseball, you know, or understanding what the pitcher is telling the catcher telling the pitcher like, from second base, like the basement like you, you get this deep insight into how to just murder somebody Excuse me? Totally. After a game, yeah, because you find their defaults. Absolutely Sorry, that was like, I’ve been meaning to say that publicly for a long time.
Kaleena
This is a great way to put it though,
Michael Hughes
what it is because you know, if you have all these options of movement, and you do access them in daily life, and especially in sport, and you understand how each joint moves in all three planes of motion in the relative range of motions that they should with each other joint in any particular motion, and we can break that down. I know that you and I can’t. We don’t have to memorize anything. It’s just the context to every single motion pattern and the level of their athleticism. It’s like, gosh, as you can eat this sense about confidence, it just feeds this overall sense that you can really help somebody and you can build a roadmap from that movement assessment, and you got 1000 different ways to go. Yeah,
Kaleena
even if you’re in not an athlete? No, of course, if you’re just your average Joe, or you know, have a stay at home mom, you know, wouldn’t you want to be mobile and strong at every joint you possibly couldn’t be in every plane of motion. Because daily life requires you
Michael Hughes
to just do that would be nice to move freely at all times.
Kaleena
Yeah, instead of having to, you know, there are people who genuinely are just trying to avoid rotation. And think about it actively. When I squat to pick things up, I don’t bend, I do this, I do that. And it’s this very rigid context. But when we talk about kids are the best example of 3d movers, because they don’t think they just do. And it’s not because they get old and they sit and they, you know, we just get into this mindset of, we can’t do these things, but we just haven’t trained our body that way. Or continue to train our body that way, with kids all the time, they get on the floor, they bend, they roll, they don’t think about moving and then as we get older, now all of a sudden, we have to start thinking about movement. When you go to work, or when you go to pick something up. I’ve been, you know, laughing and I’m sure it’ll be an epic, Instagram video, but all of the information you see about working out well pregnant, don’t do this. Don’t do that. Don’t rotate. It’s bad for you. It’s going to hurt your back. It’s going to hurt your hips. Like, okay, you want me to do none of that while I’m pregnant. But then the second I leave the hospital, I’m carrying a weight on one side. Alright, just keep going. Beautiful. Put a baby in a friggin car seat. No rotation with no rotation and not in a minivan. Yeah, and. And don’t wake up your baby, either. Like Good luck with that, or having to lift that car seat out. car seats are a massive bounce. Yeah, they can be massive, and then you’ve got another like, you know, eight to 10 pound weight inside of it. And then you got to carry that around. And you’re telling me don’t rotate or don’t do that, like it’s impossible to not rotate or not laterally flex. I mean, yes, it’s gonna be awkward. And you might be more stable with just a good old Lock and load your core and lock and load your hips. But you’re not going to get that baby in and out of your car without rotating or bending over to put baby in the crib bassinet. We talked about, you know, being spine neutral a lot. I’m sorry, if you’re short, you’re putting a baby in a crib, you are not going to stay spine neutral, you’re gonna have to get a giant step stool, you’re going to try and like, deadlift that baby into the crib. But we know that’s not gonna that’s not going to be long term success. So why do we tell people to not do all these things that you’re just going to do in day to day life?
Michael Hughes
I know the answer. I figured it out. Because people don’t do that. They get injured doing that. They tell their doctor, I was rotating throwing a bag of soil out of my car and all my back got messed up. Yeah. I figured it out. You shouldn’t do that. I’m an over oversimplifying this, but data comes from somewhere. Yeah, comes from empirical application. Yeah. And they say don’t do that. And they don’t really understand or deep dive because it’s not the doctors job to do that. They’re very busy human beings. There’s not they’re not by it. They do not take anatomical biomechanics, in school. Maybe us maybe a class, but they understand where the muscles are. Even orthopedic surgeons, much respect and then you guys are freaking ninjas were rock stars. But you don’t really dive in deep to how that foot connects to the knee. How the knee connects that hip and why that hip? Got so arthritic. And how to bring that hip back to normality. Yes, it’s a brand new species of metal and awesomeness. But why did it get there? No, you got hit with a baseball bat 17 times because you’re mixed martial art. Okay, I get it. But if you’re just some 50 year old dude, something’s something triggered that. Yeah, the body is a resilient animal. It’s a resilient, it’s the most resilient animal on this planet. Gosh, it’s so much that and there’s so much like depth that we can dive into just with three planes in motion, because it’s as simple as just moving in all three planes motions, but it dives deep into the neuro musculoskeletal system of every little thing. The body keeps track of everything. So back to the comments like why do we were told not to do it because we got injured doing it. But because we didn’t do that we didn’t train it. I believe the more the technology in in our lives increases, the less the body has to do things. And we’re simply training it very well to sit in this chair. Yeah. And to do less, which is awesome. It’s really that’s called leisure. But the human body was designed to move. There was a gift fella who talked about and in their second fellowship, just keep it simple speech. The body’s literally in constant vibration. Literally, it’s on on a hertz meter you can met measurement. So is the planet so is every thing here. And as that vibration starts to decrease, it gets like, I think it’s like I’m gonna just round it here 50 hertz, disease and death starts to happen. I think we’re in this again, forgive me for these numbers, but you know, we’re hanging around the 80 to 120 Ranger, excuse me if I’m off on that. But we are once we get there it’s it’s measurable tissue starts to decay and die, the less vibration? Well that’s the micro level right? Super micro it’s like well stagnant water. Right, exactly. So movement I think we should move more least to a certain level. Absolutely. And yeah, people work out a lot. But running out of trouble is not enough. Like there’s missed opportunities. If I can get anything across training and conditioning in any way, shape or form is relatively good. But don’t miss the opportunity of the other 66% Just to keep it simple.
Kaleena
Yeah. What do our clients say about 3d training? I mean, I’m gonna toot our own horn here. What’s our client retention rate?
Michael Hughes
About 3% Oh, excuse me. 97% Our client retention rate? Yeah, not Yeah. 10% like
Kaleena
97% which is insane. Which is insane. Because what’s what’s the average average gym?
Michael Hughes
Oh, a good number is temporary is keeping is only losing 10% or keeping 90% That yeah, good. Like, man. Good. Great
Kaleena
job. Yeah. And if you’re like those 24 Hour Fitness is Frenchman says, yeah. But how many of those people don’t even use their membership? 50%. And plus, yeah, so we’re talking, we have a 97% retention rate. And we have, what do you think our capacity is coming into the gym every single week?
Michael Hughes
Every single week? I think who can do some quick math here. 7515. Our whoo boy, you know, 300? I think we’re, we’re about just over 1500 spot visits per week visits per week. Now that could be same person. Yeah.
Kaleena
But that’s pretty incredible. So clearly, our clients enjoy 3d movement. Would you say that?
Michael Hughes
I would say it is a revolution to their mindset and life.
Kaleena
And why do we think that clients enjoy 3d movement? Why is this? Why are we so different? Other than the behavioral stuff that we had a great talk about? You missed that podcast, go back and listen to that. That’s good one. But why do people come back? You know, we’ve heard 3d movement is, is this or this? Nobody has their own opinion about that. But clearly, we have a clientele that says this works for us.
Michael Hughes
Yeah. Why? Because it’s authentic. It feels athletic. It’s challenging. It’s freeing. You literally walk out of here better than you walked in with more motion here, your muscles are tired, your your lungs are like, Okay, I need to chill, chill out a little bit. But you get can really move better. And that is you cannot deny the human psyche when you have a more freeing, lofty, airy. What’s the word? You know, when you walk better since you that?
Kaleena
Well, we hear that, you know, working out should for some people is strictly gains, muscular gains, strength gains. But I would say majority of people don’t necessarily they want to get stronger, but they’re not necessarily trying to push 100 pounds up overhead. I think more people especially, we have a menacing older clientele. Our median age is probably 45. You know, and they’re not trying to bulk up. They’re not trying to be physique driven athletes. They straight up, they want to move better. So when they see these weird, bizarre 3d, med, ball slams, but they walk out, they go, I move better. That’s their end goal. And that’s what they take away from all this.
Michael Hughes
And it’s kind of funny, because different demographic types, not age demographic, but occupation, demographics, the more engineer, the more science scientists in a sense, you know, the more the faster they get it. Yeah, in fact, we just had someone walk in literally a day ago, last Friday, and he’s a dentist. And he says, Man, I’ve been looking for something like this for years. That’s awesome. Like you guys are moving in all the ways that the body can move. Yeah, I’m like, How do you know that? This is why I went to dental school. I mean, you know, I understand how anatomy connects out in straight lines. muscles don’t connect in straight lines. Yeah. So therefore they don’t move in straight lines. Yeah. I, this is how it is like, I’m a dentist. I’m literally turning to my left all day long. Yeah. And my right shoulder. can’t stand it. So I got to break the pattern. I’m like, dude, high five.
Kaleena
You know, thanks for getting me. Yeah, we didn’t have to work very hard for that one.
Michael Hughes
So yeah, so the more you remove in a repetitive pattern, the better To the body gets that pattern, great news. But I hope you don’t only have to move in that pattern, because you’re not gonna be that good at it. If you know just really practice doesn’t make perfect practice makes permanent. So make everything permanent.
Kaleena
Would you say that programming and 3d is way more fun?
Michael Hughes
Oh, man, I you know, so here’s a good story. YouTube, you know, not that old, but YouTube was my programming source. I loved it. Yeah. 50 exercises that all crazy. Just Just Just give me crazy off the wall stuff. Because you get bored. Yeah, you know, I don’t know if CrossFit changed their numbers on their website recently, but 50 drills, 50 exercises? That’s what again, could it change? But less than read several years? Here’s go yep. 50 exercises? Yeah, we have. We have unlimited infinite, but I’m just gonna say we program at least 5000 At least Yeah, maybe even 50,000. I mean, we haven’t maybe been open that that long. But it’s, there’s no limit to the potential because you have all these micro motions that change biomechanical processes, and change in reaction. And it’s really cool. Now, we used to overdo it. You know, because we would make major sizes and everything. So like drill one was a lunge matrix. Drill two is an overhead press matrix drill three was a kneeling lunge matrix, I’m going to step up drill for was a deadlift matrix. So basically, we’re giving people by this time, right drill number four, you’re giving them four times three. Yeah, different drills. Yeah. And it’s the mindset, the the memory, like is, that’s that’s a little much. It’s yeah. And it’s really, it’s not using your drills. Again, there’s more to training and conditioning than movement. Right? There’s the mind, body and soul. So you got to train all three and take into consideration that are all need to be understood. Can’t overpower one because you diminish the content of that. So we backed off on a little bit, but we also in the early days, like I didn’t touch isolation motion. Like we still haven’t done a strict crunch. Oh, yeah. In a decade plus, yeah. In our programming. Yeah. You know, even I remember the first few years didn’t touch benchpress benchpress auto mechanic on your back, like, yeah, man, you don’t need to do that, you know, like, that’s the only functional application that we can think of. And I we went hard, like, if it’s not upright, I mean, too far. You went full, full global for global. Yeah. And we’re there are some holes in that story. But yeah, that’s why like an Olympic lifting and isolation and, you know, physique training, that’s not bad. No, it’s just limited. Yes, just limited.
Kaleena
There’s a time and a place for everything I really believe so. You know, we’ve used plenty of isolation strategies to help people who can’t maybe probe receptively could point us something, say we need to isolate it, you know, because even, you know, you kind of get sucked in this beautiful 3d world of functional fitness. And it’s not functional, don’t do it. So we need to make this as functional as freaking possible. And then your clients not successful, right? And the days go on least fun. They’re still not successful, and you’re trying to globally tweak and modify to make it functional. And get to work. Like it’s not working. This is good. Okay, so what do I need to do? Oh, crap, we need some isolation, right? And then all of a sudden, it’s like, oh, it works, it clicks. And it was just, you know, the way I put it is, we have the hard wiring, just, you know, you might need a little electrical tape somewhere, there’s just something that’s like off, right, and you can just rewire it and take backup, and sometimes it takes isolation. So there’s literally nothing wrong with isolation. But if you only train in isolation, right, it’s too much of a good thing. Almost too much isolation, too much global movement. Same thing, same problem, you’re gonna have the same problems.
Michael Hughes
Exactly. A lack of a complete picture. And the cool thing is like, um, you know, I’ll go through the grocery store once a while and check out the mat, the magazine rack and open the Men’s Fitness that it’s coming. Yeah, like it’s, it’s getting there, like even go on that some people’s YouTube channels were like, Oh, okay. Like I saw a 3d lunch. They didn’t call it that. Yeah, no, they put some credit they always put slang.
Kaleena
Yeah, to make it sexy. Well, not to call something that, I
Michael Hughes
don’t know. I’d like to call things the way it is. But it’s like it’s definitely coming. And it’s will be a you know, like, like, like everything else. You know, there’s still flip phones out there. Yeah, some people are bringing it
Kaleena
back. Now. They just brought back the razor and I was like, do I want one again, like it kind of
Michael Hughes
small. It’s small. But it’s this kind of concept like, you know, the world will get educated by, by results. Not by case studies. Case studies are not are not the best practices. It’s an average it’s a bell curve average. And that, you know, I would love to bring someone on here talking about that. But a case study is an average. And average is average. I don’t like being an average trainer.
Kaleena
I think with fitness. It’s also subjective based on the person because everybody has a different way that they like to train and the way they like to feel. So we can say, you know, X, Y, and Z with a very linear, very subjective. Rigid, yeah, like the database, you know, on the set. Yeah. And you get all CrossFit athletes who only train CrossFit and love CrossFit. Guess what they’re gonna say, this is the best way to train, this is how they like to do it. But and if you saw them in a 3d functional standpoint, they’re like, this is not how I like to train, there’s not enough power in here. They’re not gonna like that. And, and that’s very different from another group of people who, who do love 3d training, and go from there. You know, I think it’s just, it’s hard to say this is the best way to train because the best way is not the best for everybody. And that’s
Michael Hughes
Yeah, and that’s also great. Yeah, it’s also obviously that it’s not great. It’s okay.
Kaleena
Yeah, fine. Those are we have different facets of fitness. Everybody has their own little niche. They’d like the way that I kind of put it is like, what everybody likes pizza. If you don’t like pizza, we can’t be friends. Like, everybody likes pizza, but there’s different styles of pizza. And you might prefer one style of pizza versus the other. We think that our way is the best style of pizza, though. So yeah, that’s kind of, you know, in here’s
Michael Hughes
what we’re talking about, I totally get your you know, it’s like, we can’t get entrapped in our own dogma.
Kaleena
Yeah. Right. That’s
Michael Hughes
really important. It’s really important. And, you know, I think why we’re so we’re so bullish, we’re so excited about 3d movement, because it’s such a lacking piece in industry. And we have this, like, this light that we want to hold as high as possible. Be like, Guys, come on, you know, if you’re stuck, you just can’t figure it out. If you’re in pain, you know, your, your, your performance. Pete, I got something for you. Yes. And we want to bring, we want to shine that light, because it’s, it makes you feel as a coach, when I look at every single person as an individual, and no session is ever the same. No program is I cannot give with all my ethics, you know, the same program to same people in one on one training, right group training, I get it, right. It’s a demographic, so they’re paying paying for but in terms of like movement correction. And it’s never like, Oh, you have knee pain? Here’s the program I prewritten. No, it just doesn’t work. No. I mean, you can certainly save some time because there’s some carryover. Yeah, right. So general conditioning that needs to be done. But every person has a unique problem to be solved. Yeah, that is really cool. And it takes the understanding of three dimensional Chain Reaction writes joint by joint, one joint effects, the other joint biomechanics? Absolutely. And it’s pretty complicated. Yeah. But it’s a system. The body gives us the answers. We’ve got to see it.
Kaleena
Yeah, it’s easily one of my favorite, favorite things about our job is being able to that problem solving,
Michael Hughes
because the answer is always there. Yeah, just can we? Can we uncover it? Totally. All right. All right. Well, hello, sorry, you go for it. I’m about to do a tangent. Crazy.
Kaleena
What do you think people are missing out on? If they aren’t training in 3d? Or what do you think trainers are missing out on if you’re not programming in 3d?
Michael Hughes
Yeah. So again, I’m gonna take this concept and we were being very one sided on this one on purpose. These I am on purpose, to kind of prove to bring a point across is that potential, right, you’re missing potential. And potential. I mean, that’s a big that’s a big phrase, make your mental potential your money making potential, your client success potential, the number of clients that you can successfully confidently like I gotcha. Yeah, no problem. You got a little bit knee pain, got a lot of knee pain. Gosh, you haven’t worked out in 20 years because of your knee pain. I gotcha. like to say that, and not everyone see them? You know, like, I least I can know where to start. Yeah, that’s super, super powerful. So from a coaching, just having that confidence to know that you have a way of thinking that is, there’s just possibilities. Absolutely. That’s really cool. From from an athlete standpoint, like what are you missing? Again, the words potential, but it’s kind of hard to know what you don’t even knows there. Right? That that that empty space in our brain? Because that was definitely me. I mean, I was, you know, if I could meet Arnold Schwarzenegger, like, man, that’d be the best thing in the world. You know, show me how you really got that bicep, you know, to get to look like that, you know? And it’s really because it’s, it’s this fascination of like, you really kind of you attract to yourself to your to your local tribe. And when that tribes surrounded dogma of us is only versus collective, let’s learn from each other. I know I don’t know, like I want to advance technology in the human body, I want to advance training conditioning. Like when was the last time we had a big revolution in the training and conditioning world? It was CrossFit. Actually. Yeah. Early 2000s. That was a big bomb drop on the industry. And now boutique. Fitness is proof. I don’t know the exact numbers, but it’s probably just as popular as big box gyms. Yeah, there was no booty, and we boutique was like, a drop in the bucket. Yeah, now it’s a dominance, dominance, you look at all the you know, you look at Orangetheory, that f 45. You know, and even like, F 45. They’re change. They’re, they’re adding more three dimensional, they don’t call it that. I don’t think they really know that they’re doing it. But you know, maybe they are I don’t know that the you know, the franchise, guys. But, you know, it’s definitely Ooh, it’s getting there. It’s smelling a little bit different, you know? So, gosh, when I forget the question,
Kaleena
we asked, what are people, people or trainers missing out on? If they aren’t? Oh, yeah,
Michael Hughes
I’m going through the different segments. Yeah, exactly. But they’re missing the concept that there is, this is, this is my ultimate answer, there is a career in fitness. It is not a hobby job anymore. With this understanding. It’s not just this, like, I’m young, I got some extra time, I’m gonna go and train somebody, you know, I don’t know very many 45 Plus trainers out there that are making a living, and not a slave to their trade. If you’re out there, please comment, I love to chat with you, and know what you’re doing. Again, career, you’re making all the money you want, and you’re not a slave to your trading. I mean, you have to work to make to make money. You literally have to be in person make money, okay? So it’s that potential to broaden your horizons of your client scope. To be able to train the youth athletes all the way to I’m in a wheelchair. And yep, I still need multi joint motion pattern all the way through. And I do want to get point in bringing up youth, like we’re gonna be talking about, like, you know, we want to make it look exactly like the movement pattern. There’s a limit to that concept, too, right? Totally. Especially in youth athletics. It’s like, you know, sport specific training and youth athletics. Very fine grain assault there, you know, gotta be a certain age of movement development. I know, you know, that being a youth coach, you know, but we made that comment. It’s like, wait a minute, there’s always context, everything that we say. But three dimensional training, generally, you know, is awesome for youth, just slowly, don’t always practice throwing a baseball with a seven year old. Not a good idea. You know, which are at least 18 inches. So, just have this mindset, you know, when three dimensional training this understanding this tool, as I’m closing my eyes right now, because I’m like, I’m imagining what it was like prior, this knowledge. And it was stuck. I just felt stuck. I always needed to copy someone else. I needed the inspiration from someone else. And now it’s like, now the inspiration is all here. Like, I get further inspired by hanging out with you guys a lot. To be honest with you. Yeah, you know, but it’s this. It’s the self perpetuating cycle. Because we learned like, Man, I didn’t even know that we can move a moped sick like that. You know, it was really this whole like, oh, wait a minute. Okay, so you just applied this chunking technique, right? This? Yeah, try playing, you know, did this and I see what you did there. And I can understand it. I don’t need you to tell me. I can I can prosper. I can prosper. I can I can deep dive in my own thought process. Because they understand the system. Yeah. So yeah, that’s, I’ll stop there is that about it?
Kaleena
I think there’s a lot of it. Um,
Michael Hughes
well, let me bring this up here. This is this is a plug but it’s a very healthy plug. And we talked about the green suit a lot and those guys are brilliant. Brilliant, really appreciate what they’ve done for the industry. But if you want to step into it and not dive headfirst, financially and timewise and you want understand that what we do and how we took the applied functional Science Methodology methodology as you methodological, but those methodologies its concept, it’s a, it’s a conglomerate of methodologies and put it into the training conditioning world not just for movement, not just for one on one but for group. But for operations and for even the mindset training, even the behavioral side of things and how we make it work in a training and conditioning, gym, you know, in a boutique style, reach, reach out to us. We have a program that is rad into this literally open sourcing everything that we’ve learned and continue You need to learn, it’s literally a growing course it’s once you buy in every update that comes to it, you get it for free. So it’s called the MDMC multi dimensional movement coaching program. It has a mentorship and such as online course, but a mentorship. And every single coach that has been part of Gymnazo goes through it. And I think we have the best coaching staff that I’ve ever come across in my entire life. And we get reaffirmed by that who coaches come visit us. And that’s not being prideful, that has been prideful. It’s a healthy, prideful, like, I’m very proud of our team and the capacity that we have. Because I think it’s will revolutionize the industry. And we just got to bring more of you into it. Because the world needs it. We need more potential and more confidence in our training world.
Kaleena
We are the Tesla said, We are the Tesla of the training community. We’re we’re a luxury top line,
Michael Hughes
pushing the innovation pushing innovation. Chances are offense. I could end with that. Beautiful. Well, thank you very much cleaner.
Kaleena
Hey, my pleasure. And thanks for chatting about this is one of our favorite topics and obviously kind of the foundation for Gymnazo. So this is important to us
Michael Hughes
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