Ben D’Aguilar on Injury Recovery, Overcoming Performance Plateaus, and Utilizing Movement Data
Michael Hughes
Welcome to the Gymnazo podcast where you get to peek behind the curtains of what it takes to create and run a seven figure fitness facility that ranks in the top 5% of boutique fitness studios for revenue. But to be honest, that’s the least important thing about us. Founded by me, Michael Hughes, Gymnazo has created an ecosystem of services that blend performance with restoration techniques, and attracts top coaches to its facility hosted by its owners, Peyton and myself and our top coaches this podcast shares our best practices on everything from how to build a sustainable fitness business, to how to program for maximum results to how to build a hybrid training module that’s online and in person. We have marketing secrets, movement, innovation, and breaking down trends in the industry. If you’re a fitness professional or fitness business owner, this is where you learn how to sharpen your skills and to see maximum results.
CJ
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Gymnazo podcast. I am your host, CJ Kobliska, Director of programming here at Gymnazo. And today I have an awesome guest. His name is Ben D’Aguilar, practicing that name multiple times. And I nailed it. So happy to have you on this podcast. He is a coach, a trainer, a guide a dad, a ex football player, a shaman of sorts, a magic man, a clown, multiple titles has no name and all the names at one time. Ben, welcome to the podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you on.
Ben
Hey, man, how’s it goin?
CJ
It’s fantastic. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for quite some time. I’ve been following you on on the ground for a bit and been a part of your mystery mastery of movement school, then been enjoying that experience quite a bit. So let’s dive into that later on. But first and foremost, I mean, let’s tell everybody kind of your history your past because I think that’s one of the most fascinating parts about you. It’s just kind of how you came to be in your spot right here right now. And that spaceship you’ve got.
Ben
All right, man. So it’s an interesting story. A lot of times as kids, you know, you meet new people, and they start they asked stuff about you. And we tell people and no one ever believes us because it sounds like a movie, like so far fetched. So we didn’t like ever vibe with people too much because they didn’t grow up around us. So they’re just like, That guy lies all the time. And then, you know, Google wasn’t a big thing back then. But if they were to Google it all, they’d be like, Oh, shit, you know, he’s telling the truth. Like, for example, my dad was a stunt man for Mr. T, way back in the day, like 80s and 90s, because he was doing a T and T TV show in Toronto, where we grew up. So my dad did that. Right. So he’s already like, a character. And he’s around characters because he’s, you know, mirroring Mr. D all the time. So my dad’s unique. And then for a time period, my mom was a professional clown. Okay. No jokes, like, I’d have to go into makeup and stuff and go with her and like she would do the balloon. So, you know, the a lot of lot of interesting stuff getting started. And then my dad would have all these old books on the indigenous natives, to Canada and the United States and stuff like that. And we would watch Bruce Lee movies and Jackie Chan. That’s just what we did. And then I’m starting to mimic that and I’m doing all those things in the middle of learning bodybuilding, because my dad was a championship bodybuilder and power lifters and then I learned that too, and he was obsessed with football. So I was kind of like, you know, in his shadow learning all this stuff while learning the other stuff from my mom, she was a cross country, runner, bodybuilder clown for a time period, you know what I’m saying? So that’s already a lot of stimulus. And like gateways to draw information from as you’re developing as a kid, not a lot of people are exposed to that kind of stuff. So, you know, they kind of start off that I had no choice but to enter the weirding way, if you will. What an entry point. Yeah, man, for real just freaking threw me to the wolves. So then, as a result of all that stuff, you know, we had friends, and we’d play and stuff, but folks didn’t really understand us that much. So I spend a lot of time alone. And in that alone time, I’m watching movies and watching superhero movies and National Geographic. And then parents split up. So I’m a young kid, I’m trying to like figure out my identity and stuff like man who’s going to teach me stuff. What am I going to do? Because I’m seeing my pops less. So then I started watching National Geographic documentaries, and the one that really struck me at a time that like emotionally, I was at a tough place, man, I was at a low A very, very confusing thing for a child when the parents split and start to watch the Tigers because the Tigers are more like, isolated than the lions. So that’s why I got the tiger too. That’s us and all that stuff because like, I feel like imprinted on me to be like, do this the tiger, you know, the male Tiger spends a lot of time alone, but he can take care of every aspect of his domain. And he’s the king of his domain, without needing anyone to tell him what to do. So that’s why like, I took on sort of that energy, like, I got to be my own Tiger now. And then I started to like, do crawling, do the Bruce Lee stuff, the Jackie Chan, keeping all the power lifting and all that. And then my dad comes back into the picture when I was nine, as a football coach. So now I’m like, Alright, cool, I’ll do that I can spend more time with him. If I do football, so I’ll play sports. And I got started. And then, you know, from nine, just keeps on going. And going, Magpie just almost flew in my window. About that. So is there any questions of any of the stuff that you want to break in and ask so far along the way before I keep rolling?
CJ
Yeah, I mean, just sounds like a very different childhood that I experienced. So I’m interested, it’s almost like a video game of sorts. You know, there’s, it’s all the different actions and levels and, and as a kid exploring those things, there’s, there’s no real anchors to tie them to, right. It’s kind of just, it’s whatever is fun, whatever feels great. And it sounds like more playful, just sportive sense. Your circumstances almost kind of set you up for that. And I’m wondering how that’s kind of carried out into your practice, today, and how that’s kind of refined into your adult years, especially developing those insights or skills, or just those sensations and feelings and communication with your body. And kind of the outside world how that came into effect. Maybe Maybe we started exploring those concepts a bit further, or how you went about it as you as you enter pro sports.
Ben
So I would say like, for an easily identifiable sort of mind picture for anyone that’s watching or listening, I would equate it to like, if you start off life with a bag of marbles, my bag of marbles had more marbles in it. So like all those different interchangeable things, and all those different influencing factors, versus what a lot of people have. And as time goes on, I started to play around with those marbles and refine them. So there’s already more, right, that’s equilibrium as I was born into that, and it’s like, how do I harmonize all these different things that are in my life. So along the way, football ended up being like the laser focus, right? Like, if you’re looking at a laser, you take in multiple beams of light, right, those being the marbles, and you refine it in through a lens, so that it becomes a heated array to use, as you see fit. Football was my laser for all those different things, right? So I’m able to now train along the years. And based on the same way that they’re introduced to me, I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna do some animal stuff, because I feel like, it helps me get low to the ground. And like having that energy. It’s like hunting when you’re chasing down a ball carrier. So then I’m having that sort of like primal, like, I’m going to get that guy and I’m trying to take them out. I’m not just trying to get them like, Hey, I got a point I got a tackle. I’m trying to go through, take them down, remove the problem, you know what I’m saying? I hit people really hard because of that mindset. And then also with the hand stuff, like the football stuff was all right, and they got their techniques, but I’m like, But martial arts was formulated from like the stuff Mossad, Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee that I studied into their lives, and like read their books and all that stuff. So now I’m thinking, martial arts was created for life or death scenarios. So it’s to be a refined practice. And it’s playful, and it’s creative, yet, it’s life or death that these techniques were created for. So I feel like those sort of hand fighting techniques and that nature towards actually getting the people’s hands off you is probably going to serve me better or enhance any of the stuff that I learned through the football hand fighting techniques. So then all of a sudden, now I’m freaking, you know, like, hitting the wrist with my wrist and like getting the person’s hand off and like, Oh, what the hell man and you know, stuff like that. So I’m applying now the martial arts techniques blended with the animalistic tendencies into my football practice, and I continue to get better and do things that other people aren’t doing. And they also don’t have a defense against. So I’m like, okay, cool. That’s, that’s good. Because the football stuff came easy because of that mindset, and because that exposure to thinking about, alright, clowning, it’s fun, it’s funny, it’s playful. Adding that in with like, a lethal practice of martial arts, with like, the animal instinct and the tendencies of like, being all the way in like fully honed in, and not thinking of it like a game, but like, I got to do this, I got to get this person, and it changes the way that you perform. And then I found that all those things instead of taking away from the generic football techniques, it enliven the practice and made it stronger, and stronger, and stronger. And then with repetition, it takes more work when you’re playing with more marbles, because there’s more things that you have to put in. But over time, with enough repetition, it became instinct. And then the bike.
CJ
It’s fascinating man, I wonder if you had that view of processing this, you said you were playing football from the age of nine and kind of gone from there, right? When you’re going through the trainings, especially as you go into middle school, high school, and you’re starting to get to this upper level competitions, where now you’re, you’re playing against other adults that are kind of having a similar mindset? And isn’t it is a war out there. As you’re training along those teenage years? Were you thinking about these pieces? Or was it more instinctual in the sense of like, I’m just this is how I am, you know, from the weight room to the field and practicing, of course, you’ve got your coaches influence your team’s influence, and then how you’re able to communicate these things with other athletes or even just within yourself, and seeing yourself level up? Like what was your level of understanding of this in those teenagers that pretty, pretty solid kind of where it is now? Were you able to process those same pieces? Or was it more just playing the sport at that time and realizing what you’re doing later on?
Ben
It was definitely like an instinctive thing. Back then, it’s like watching film, you can watch film from something that happened prior. And then later on, you can analyze and see more what’s happening. But in the heat of it, it’s just pure, instinctive reaction. So I was just living it then. Until I got into school. And high school wasn’t much of anything. Gym class is fun, like gym classes. Amazing. I love gym. And I noticed later on that I was able to be good at everything. Because wrestling was still a part of GMAC, they were just fucking awesome. So like, we’re doing wrestling, we’re playing rugby, football, basketball, dodgeball, everything. And I’m like, I’m good at everything. And every teachers come and ask me to try out for every single team. And I’m like, whom I wonder if like, the stuff that I’ve done has something to say to that. And then I just kind of like sat on that as the years went on and grasped it as much as I could in a teenage mind. And then just kind of kept performing. And then later on looking back at it with this lens that I have, now I could see you like, it’s not just a random occurrence, it’s those things that I did in harmonizing all those separate elements, gave me an edge, and allowed me to do whatever it is that I wanted to do. So then I’m like, there’s something to that. Because observing other people, I see him like, maybe they could play tennis, but they can do something else. Or maybe they can lift weights, but then you have them run. And it’s like a bag of bones. So what’s going on in people’s training and methodologies, whatever, that they lack that ability to adapt?
CJ
Yeah, so your carryover of what you present, especially through your Instagram, your social media channels, is kind of it is this exploratory nature and kind of, you got to discover it for yourself, you’ve got to put into practice, you got to put in the reps to understand what it is that you’re doing. But it kind of starts as this play aspect, it starts says this discovery, and then you kind of latch on to that discovery, and just keep exploring how you can integrate that into other pieces, I’m interested in, in your thoughts of how that can be brought into, you know, a high school or younger level experience in training, whether it’s in the weight room or in the weight room and on the field on the court, and applying those principles and those strategies that can be then extrapolated into techniques in each of those environments. That can be carried over directly so that you’re not just playing the sport, you’re you’re playing the game of life in the sport, like it’s an expression of your, your being what do you think is currently missing? Or is where are we dropping the ball as coaches of youth athletes where we could be maximizing that time and setting them up for success not just in sport, but being able to bring those principles of life and of survival and learning how to thrive in your environment? How can we bring that into, let’s say a weight room or into a practice?
Ben
Um, what I’ve seen because I’ve seen it all along the years and, you know, studied many ages prior to like, all the way back when weightlifting started and, you know, ancient war games and sports and how they would train athletes and warriors and stuff like that. I see that their practice was a lot more balanced toward here. It’s like it’s people discovered something good. And then they got rid of all the stuff, polished it off, and then presented that same thing, but omitted the process that allowed them to discover that diamond in the first place, which is rough that’s like the place to play is how you invigorate a practice and sustain it to where if you only discover a form, and then you keep using that form, and you never revisit that creative process that like brainstorming as to how you’ve been discovered in the first place. That’s how you enhance it and then live in it. And people got rid of that, like gym class was that it’s, you do all this different stuff. And then through gym class, you find that maybe you like football, or maybe you like baseball better, maybe you want to then make that you’re laser focused through experimenting through the other stuff. But then once you isolate into that art, that process, that creative process that tinkering that’s sort of like, Hmm, how do we make the iPhone 12? Now, how do we make the iPhone 13? We got a good thing. How do we do that creative process, that doesn’t really happen so much. In training, it’s always the same techniques, it’s always the same moves. And it’s like, how are your you’re going to get better or learn anything new or even strengthen your practice. If you’re not including that process in the routine. Do you know what I’m saying? It’s like the play is the glute. People do the forms, they do the lunges, they do the lifting, they do this. But they’re not taking a day to be like, Okay, let’s just throw paint at the easel and see what happens. And then when you return to the regular routine on Monday, it becomes enlivened with repetition. You know what I’m saying?
CJ
Yeah, I like to break down a few of those things, because I’m following you. But there’s certainly a lot of like, other concepts that I’m exploring at the same time as you’re presenting it. So I have my frame, and I know you’ve got your frame, which is great. I know our listeners and watchers have their frames, too. So first thing like laser focus, we brought that up a few times, like you’ve got your laser focus. What do you mean by that? Like, if we have that one thing? So if it is your sport, what about kind of general population? If they’re sort of like, I don’t know, I don’t really have a sport or a thing? Where can that laser focus? What is the definition of that in your mind?
Ben
Definition of that is like taking all the sporadic elements of your life, your interests, whatever, and putting it into cultivated practice. So it’s like, I want to do something with this. And I want to channel it into something. So for someone else, it could be maybe it’s weight loss, maybe it’s health, maybe it’s I want to get out of pain. So if it’s not a sport, then that becomes a thing. Maybe it’s just, I want to express myself and I found that movement is the lens that I want to use to do that. That’s going to become my laser focus is that that register?
CJ
Yeah, super helpful. Because I just work with a lot of individuals that I’ve got a lot of very motivated and focused and goal oriented kind of go getters, that this is kind of put a challenge in front of them and they’re gonna stay on track, you’re gonna keep rockin, and that’s super, it’s a, it’s an easy track to follow. Because kind of that achiever mindset, like I can stack on top of what I’ve learned, and I can continue to grow, I find a path. And I’ve got a lot of other people that I coach in our team coaches that come in, and let’s say they have no real practice of movement, or of weightlifting, or just any kind of physical practice that they like to do. But let’s say maybe they go for a walk here, there a hike here, there, they go to the park and play their dog or something like they’ve got things and hobbies that they enjoy doing. But there’s, there’s almost like no anchor or focus point that they can say, Oh, I feel like I’m gaining something, they’re not getting faster and stronger and like better at that thing. But they’re gaining a fuller experience and appreciation and gratitude for what it is that they’ve done. And it’s kind of an awakening this process of like, oh, I can use my physical practice to enhance my enjoyment when I go out into life because I’m less scared or less fearful. And kind of their focus is just like you said, being out of pain, like not experiencing injury. So you have this, this piece to go for. So it’s super helpful to I mean, it’s almost a goal, but it’s almost more of an intent. And then you go act on that intent, and then reflect on it. So it’s always intention, action, reflection, and then you can say, Okay, did that intent feed into that action? And then kind of reflect on how that experience went? And is this working for me? Or do I need to change something that’s one of the ingredients to make this a better process, right? Getting kind of out of that feedback loop of, I’ve done this thing, I get hurt and then I’m not going to do it anymore for a while until I feel better and go to this thing. And it’s like this feedback loop that is almost like pulling us into a path of dysfunction or less ease in our life and well must become separated from our enjoyment or from that gratitude, right? And I’m interested in where your head goes in, alright, you’re working with a client and athlete, just a human being that saying, I need help, I need guidance, I guess, where do you start? And do you find there’s a common theme or protocol? Or maybe what was the thought process of helping or guiding that individual into discovering what that path may look like? And maybe do you help people find that, that laser focus? Do you help them or find it kind of where does your mindset go? When you’ve got somebody coming in? Who’s just like, I don’t? I just don’t know where to focus? I don’t know where to start. There’s so much out there,
Ben
huh? Yeah, absolutely. In essence, with each person, it’s like crafting that lens. So I take a map of everything that they say that they are in, that they’re trying to achieve. And then I craft a lens into that. Right? So it’s like, okay, what is your ancestral history, because that will also impact the way that someone moves in their interests, as well as their genetic movement history is going to be stored in there, right? Like if someone comes in, and maybe they’re, they’re Dutch, for example, and they have some Viking lineage, they’re going to have a certain set of moves that are going to be more available to them than someone comes from an Asiatic lineage. So I also look into stuff like that, because that stuff’s important. That genes, the blood, all that stuff goes way back. And that’s a reason that oftentimes goes overlooked, that some people might have a better natural squat than others. Right? So there’s a lot of stuff that goes into it. So we’ll take that look, the genetics, and then go into Okay, what’s your injury history? What are your interests? Have you done any sports or focused on any arts along the way? Then from there, it’s like, okay, this is who you are movement wise, this is your footprint. So now, what do you want to change about it? And where do you want to go with it? What is your goal? And then it’s kind of like creating that map? To help them reach that? And taking into account what that footprint is? Who their player is in the game, if you will? How do we get you to that level? with who you are.
CJ
So much depth in there. I love that. And I hope that a lot of other coaches, like when they listen to this, they’re like, Wow, there’s a lot of things I gotta consider. And the hardest part that is gonna kill what I do with this information that like we’re chatting about, and and how do I integrate this into each individual’s map, if you will, and something you share is like, I think you said it quite often, too. And I share this thought is that our guy our ability as coaches to help somebody else become the cartographer of their body of their emotion, they learn how to map their space, it’s kind of like, Yeah, we don’t know your blueprint, I mean, your your human body and the human body. And we can relate. But you have a blueprint, that you need to discover about yourself, as much as I have a blueprint about myself that he discovered that involves our entire history even be fully or even born. And it also involves the intent of where you see yourself going and setting the stage for your kids and your kids, kids. And you’re kind of you start to extrapolate and find yourself just along this. It’s almost like a linear thread, but part of an entire blanket, like there’s weaves going in and out of every different body. And no matter where you’re where you’re predisposed to be if you can kind of use that as more of a path to more success to make yourself this bigger sphere or this bigger sphere of potential. And so I guess, where do you start with somebody in terms of mapping their space, I’ve seen you like, do a bunch of drills and kind of bring in a bunch of different practices. And it seems like there’s a lot of spiral movement and kind of this energetic flow. And this, it’s more of a conversation with your body in reference to the environment and to the physics you’re a part of, right. We’re working with gravity work with mass and momentum, we’re working with the forces of hitting the ground. How would you describe that map? for yourself? Like when you’re exploring your grid or your matrix or your sphere of potential? What is it? What do you find yourself often playing with or discovering about yourself? Like, oh, there’s more here and I’m just gonna keep practicing this because I know it makes this, this feel more whole more of a big piece of my space.
Ben
I look at it like alchemy or chemistry, so like the different existing elements, and then I’ll play by combining them or just keeping them in isolation and seeing how they work alone and then switching the element. So, for example, it’s like, if you’re trying to discover something, there’s no guaranteed technique. That’s gonna find it. Someone who might find something about themselves by doing Like Tai Chi, for example, they may not find it, but then all of a sudden, if you get them into powerlifting, they can find it. So it’s looking at the different elements and exploring and seeing, alright, well, what what, how do we find it? Okay? You find that if you’re doing something that is primarily primarily linear, you might not discover that maybe you want to get that shoulder into place by exploring more, and you want to reach around in a different spread, and actually find out where the issue is, you’re probably not going to find that if you’re only doing the same things. So then I play with stimulus one day, it’s just playing with my kids at a park. Another way, it’s alright, what are the energetic and flowing movements going to discover for me? And then from there, it’s like, huh, but now I feel like I need to dance. So it’s finding juxtaposition, an interplay of those different elements, and basically becoming an alchemist and being able to use that to help you achieve your goals. So for me, it’s impulse. It’s a feeling it’s a, I’ll try something bare bones. It’s raw process doesn’t look nice on film. It’s, what if I just stand here and bounce in my left hip a little bit? Cool. How do I find more now that if I jump off that leg, and then land, it’s very raw, as far as my personal practice goes, and I don’t film it, because it’s folks aren’t ready, maybe for for some of that. But they are ready for understanding the familiar elements that they see in like, Alright, cool, I can run running is healthy. What do I get for myself from running. And then if I transition that into maybe I want to grab a rope, because running is primarily linear. But now I also want to work on harmonizing my left and right side, like the way the running does with more flowing movements, and I’m rolling with the rope. Okay, cool. But I noticed my goal is still I want my right and left side to work together. What else can I do? Maybe I’m going to do some coiling stuff. Right? Do you know? Does that? You know,
CJ
that is your channel your channel in there? Don’t Stop that man. That was That was beautiful. I guess that leads me to my next question, which it has a lot to do with that communication that like that drive where your body’s talking back to you it but it’s hard to explain because it’s an it’s a feeling and you feel that you know it and the more you feel it, and the more you sense knowing it, you start to have this conversation going all day long, and even at night, and it shows up in your dreams, or it shows up in a practice, or it shows up that you’re constantly having this internal dialogue that may not be in words, it may not be in sound, but it’s in sensation. And I like to think of it more as like it’s proprioception, but it’s like this deeper sense. And we’re starting to learn how to listen for it. And I’m wondering, when that started for you, when you started to have like, What made you start to have these internal conversations was there was there an injury or some traumatic event or some thing that forced you into having to make that choice to talk with yourself versus having to go, I think a lot where we go, where we tend to go is when we have sensations or things that are uncomfortable, we try to go externally to solve for it, we tried to go to a doctor, or to a specialist or to a friend, which is super helpful, like we have to have the external reflection to help us reflect on ourselves. But a lot of times, we just take that for what it is. And then we just run with it and never have that deeper conversation with trying to understand what it is our body’s telling us. Because like a pain signal is really a it’s a language. And when we learn to talk with that, we start to differentiate pain. And it’s not just pain, there’s sharp pain, achy pain, dull pain, and there’s different kinds of pains that we do different things about because of how we’ve communicated with them, what events or what things have happened in your life to get you to that point where you’ve had to reflect internally. And take that next step.
Ben
I love that you bring that up. So I was like the perfect form guy. You know, when people would do all the gym teachers, and even for one of the Polkan magazines or books back when, you know, in like, Hey, man, we’d love to use your examples because your form is perfect. But I’m like, my form is perfect, but I get hurt a lot now. And this is when I started to isolate into like what the industry was doing, and was doing less of the stuff that I grew up on. I did all the time. So now I’m fusing myself, basically into the culture of it and seeing this is what they say is good. This is what they say helps you get to the next level. And Payne is a master teacher because it shows you things that you’re not accounting for. And you can’t account for no matter what anyone says. That’s the magic of pain. It’s always going to you know, it’s like the bug in the corner of the house. You have this Greek clean house, but no matter what, you know, a bug can get in or something or most. That’s like paint. And I had a bunch of severe injuries, despite my picture perfect form. And now I’m starting to have the conversation with myself internally and be like, Well, why? Why did that happen? You know, I don’t want to experience this trauma too often. And, again, this is football now. So then you’re like, I don’t want to miss time. I want to increase my performance, you know, I’m trying to get to the next level. And this injury will inhibit that ability. So now I’m having that conversation, and I’m going to the experts on Mike. But it’s not that what you’re telling me is isn’t working? Or doesn’t feel right with my internal compass, because I already tried what you said. And it still remains, it still happens. So now I’m having that internal conversation as to how do I get out of this pain? How do I heal this and improve my performance? So it’s good to have those people like you say, to bounce things off of because they might be able to see some things that you can’t, that’s why being a practitioner will always be a valuable job. But it’s how do you also become your own practitioner, so you can have a conversation in a dialogue with this person. And it’s less a, oh, you say you have this injury, do this, this, this four things. That’s it. And more so saying, I have this feeling here. And when I do those things, it doesn’t feel good. But when I actually do this way that I discovered myself, it feels good. And then have the practitioner be like, Oh, okay, well, here’s why that could be happening. It needs to become a more edifying dialogue. And that’s what actually helped me along the way, it was finding some people that were more open and less like, rigid with their stuff to where they could use their understanding of anatomy and things like that to explain like, oh, okay, maybe that stuff with your knee actually comes from something that went on with your hip and spine, based on what you’re telling me from your own reflection and experience. So all the injuries led to me being able to have that internal dialogue, and how to have a healthy dialogue with someone on the outside to realize that it’s more problems solving. And, and less. Here’s your prescription. It’s about, okay, there’s an issue, how do we solve that? How do we both like put both our skills together? To actually find out what’s going on? You know?
CJ
Yeah, something we do at Gymnazo is, essentially, do we do a spiritual movement assessment. So I mean, movement assessments, it’s a great way just to learn. Real quick, it’s a great way to learn essentially, how your how you look in your sphere. And so one thing we say, as coaches is we’re observing these lunges. And that’s one thing that we do as humans all day long as we walk, we’re just basically taking small steps or small lunges. So how can we do that in our entire sphere, and then give us a picture of what your body is experiencing fashionably and globally, and then you share what you’re experiencing locally and more internally. So it’s kind of a combination of, I can see things but I can’t feel them for you. So like what you feel, just tell me like, this is your time to complain. This is your time to share. This is your time to just basically whatever’s going on inside, let it out in the best way you can. And a lot of times, there’s it’s somebody’s first time doing that, like I don’t know how to describe it, it just hurts. I’m like, Well, does it hurt when you do it on the other side, and like, I don’t know, actually. And it’s kind of this this conversation of discovery of, oh, my gosh, I have potential of movement and places I’ve never explored before, oh, my gosh, I’ve been doing things one way for so long. And I’ve pulled myself into this attractor well, and basically pulled everything into my movement into this gravitational pull to do this one thing, this one way, like, I know how I sit, I know how I stand, I identify with how I walk, or I know when I hike, it’s always my right knee. And I know when I jump, it’s always my low back. And it’s like, have pain during or before and after. And all these little data points are so important, but not to get caught up on them is simply to just data dump. And then let that picture resonate. And as a coach, that’s tough initially, because you’re like I can, I can solve that one thing, like, but I can’t, I don’t know how to help solve that thing for that one person based on their experience. So I’m just gonna keep collecting data that helps to prove myself wrong of what I thought I saw, right? I’m always trying to prove myself wrong until I have ultimate truth of what I saw what you experienced and what we’ve seen. It all creates this one big picture that now we have a starting point and let’s go this way. And then let’s reflect in a week, maybe two weeks, maybe four weeks depending on what the issue is or what our goal is here to get out of pain to solve this discomfort so that you can go train or is it to go be a better performer and not to plateau? Like there’s there’s a lot of things and it’s just we need to wait to collect that data so that once that assessment is done, we can look at it go. I see a pattern here. I see a common theme and I see some Something that will pull us out of that attractor well. And I see that it’s just because we probably haven’t haven’t visited these other spaces, or a while your coordination is lacking when you use a foot, a hand and your hips. But when you use just a hand or just a foot, you’re good. All right, let’s start attaching these wires. So what fires together wire together so that your body can work globally function and be more coherent. So now you can have that communication. And so in that assessment, I mean, really, what we’re getting down to is you feel that you know it, but you may not know how to explore it. So somebody on the outside can help set you up for that path to, again, it’s not telling it’s just, it’s almost like guiding to a place that I see you can get out of this hole. And then you go ahead and go run with that, because you’re gonna discover yourself along that way that you’re gonna go through, you know, these, these paths that have really narrow pathways that are very tall ridges that you’re looking down, like, Ah, this is looks unsafe, I’m gonna go back to what I know. But knowing that you see that peak, like, if I keep going this path, shit, it’s gonna be rough, I’m gonna go through some thorny bushes, there’s gonna be some dark spots, I may have to cross a little wobbly bridge. But if I can get through these pieces, I’m going to look back and go like I did that I made myself push these uncomfortable states, these painful spots, but I understood them more versus just looking at it and going, Nope, I can’t go that route. It’s kind of our gut, our job as coaches I guess is to is to help them is to kind of walk that path with them. Because either you’ve been there before, as a as an athlete and experience pain, which I think a lot of people will kind of gravitate towards that, like I got out of it, I’m gonna help other people out of it, I lost a lot of weight, I’m gonna help you get out last week, but we get caught up in sharing just our path that needs to be right for them. So we have to extrapolate those principles and those things that we’re analyzing right to help them. I mean, that was kind of it.
Ben
That was music right there. Man. That was cool. That was good man, you are on it on
CJ
a conversation like this? Yeah.
Ben
You know, that’s, that’s what it is, right? Like, what people are probably realizing is that things, the next step requires better practitioners, and better students, if you will, in that. I knew from my own experience, I have different size feet, like my right foot is a whole size and a half bigger than my left foot. So then that’s going to change the entirety of the way that I move and the way that I stack all the way up the chain. So that means my form from all my experience is going to be different than when anyone else is telling me to do that they may have succeeded with. So then I learned from my own experience that if I’m helping other people, they are going to have those same stimulus and differences in needs, like I did that are unique to them. So then I have to be able as a practitioner, to help them find that which requires someone on their end, to develop the skills to be able to also feel like you’re saying and give that feedback themselves. And then I have to have the tools and the skills to be like motion data. That’s what we need to gather in order to figure out what your stack needs to be what your form needs to be. And there’s going to be similarities. Everyone has arms and legs and things like that, and walk and move. But everyone is going to have a different way that they get to that even if only on the micro level that still needs to be looked at. So then might motion that. It’s like pressure testing or stress testing something like someone’s good in the summer. How are they in the fall in the winter, they might be the best of all time doing this thing. But gathering more motion data, taking them into as much different stimulus as you can find. How do we find how good they actually are. And then through that data, you can extrapolate and find that’s what their form needs to be by going into these different creative things that maybe we weren’t finding the the more linear, linear and basic stuff. If we go outside, now we can actually find some of those things that people are looking for. Because they got those like horse blinders on. They’re like, alright, the book says to go like this. And I’m like, Well, what if your answers over here, but you never know that because you don’t look, let’s go there. Let’s gather let’s do a drill, let’s create something together. That will have you explore that space safely so that you feel comfortable, so that on your own time. Now you can maybe do that yourself. And then sometimes maybe even enter into the danger zone and try and really push it and see what you can find. But you still have that safety net of previously entering in to those moves in a safe setting. So that when the pressures turned up, be it sport, life, emotion, whatever it is that comes up, you have the ability to navigate it because you preset yourself with skills that are adaptive, and not you only got one move that you’re trying to use in every scene. Yeah.
CJ
Yeah, what are some of those like data points, those motion data points that you collect, I feel like this is something that’s super important for kind of this next wave of fitness is understanding that the exercise is the test as much as the test is the exercise the same Gymnazo it every test isn’t assessment, you don’t need to go through the assessment protocol, that’s kind of a starting base set, you know, kind of the global approach what you’re looking at. But again, it’s only a data point, even if all that data you get from that exercise is only going to give you so much there’s a limitation to it. And what are you missing so that in another exercise, you can address some other things that you can go this way that way or another way. But what it’s going to give you is another data point from another side of that web, what are you mentioned a few things like kind of looking at flow, looking at strength looking at, you didn’t say like this kind of potential integrity and an understanding your bounds? What are what do you think some of those data points are a thing that you use, you find are super valuable? So when you’re going into programming, or guiding somebody through their own protocol and discovering themselves, what are you looking at? What are you analyzing,
Ben
so I’ll take the basic foundational move sets, which makes it easy because there’s an anchor point, right? There’s that lens or that laser that we’re talking about. So take a lunch, right, you have a lunge that you can hold in an isometric, just hold it by yourself, you can also go up in through the lunch up and down, up and down. Without weight, you can add weight, and then do your lunch, you could change your feet position. In the lunch, you could do more creative stuff. So now maybe you’re doing like a foot grid while you’re down in the lunge and moving your front foot around, and then your back foot. And then maybe still in that lunch, and you’re holding it in isometric, someone’s cheering you, they’re moving you around, pushing, sort of testing the foundations. And then now also, another data point would be okay, now you’re holding the isometric of the lunch, maybe I’m going to throw a ball at you. And then we’re going to play catch. And then now to really work the neurological, you know, integration patterns of fully owning a move, what if you’re going up in depth in that lunch, and now we’re still throwing the ball, and then the spread of the ball becomes more less like, Hey, we’re just back and forth. Now, maybe I’m gonna make you reach a little bit while you’re holding that lunch. Right. So that’s a ton of different motion data points for one basic move, that’s anchoring it so that now Your lunch is going to be strong as fuck, and like earthquake proof by going into those different things. And then again, there’s the flowy stuff. So now with a lunge, maybe you’re coming up with the Tai Chi stuff, and coming down with it. So as you rise, you’re rising in the lunge to standing position, then as you come down, you’re breathing and setting down into the low point that you’d hold an isometric. And then maybe we’re doing some patterning. So you’re holding a lunch, then I have you figurative. And you’re doing the coiling, and integrating and moving and you’re challenging your balance, because when you come outside from the center, and you’re still trying to hold that lunch, Ah, shit, dawg, it’s challenging my balance. So that’s like an example to show how I would coach someone in owning the lunge position by gathering as much motion data as possible to be like, you’re good, you don’t need to worry now as much or at all that built the unsafe positions, because what we got you strong enough and as many ranges we could think of together, to allow you to go into them safely. So then that way, when the pressure is on, if it’s ever on at all, get out of your fly, you got the juice to go there and go there confidently. And you also have the adaptive moves, that you can get your way out of a sticky situation, because you’ve gathered the data is that
CJ
yeah, I mean, it’s adding more stimulus in a sense of not just, it’s kind of shifting the mindset from we got to get each individual muscle to strengthen, which is kind of that traditional mindset, we got to focus on the muscle group and make that strong, because it it almost bypasses what those muscles are designed to do, which Yeah, they’re designed to lengthen, shorten, be strong and to hold weight, but really, they’re designed to just help you be better in this, this environment, right? With the forces that are around you. It’s like to understand them. I feel like what we’re through exercise and through training and just through anything physical, we’re, it’s always even if we’re not processing it consciously, on the back end, our body’s always learning and 24/7 We’re training it for something and that, you know, six to eight hours of that, maybe less, maybe more maybe sleeping and just training it to be horizontal, you know, in whatever position you’re in, but then you’ve got these other 10 plus hours to work with that may be sitting and you’re training your body to sit or to be In a certain position, that none of that is wrong, none of that is bad. It’s just gaining an understanding and paying attention to well, you know what I always drive with my left arm here, and I always sit here, I drive a lot. And when I’m driving, I might be stressed out, or maybe I’m super relaxed. So while I’m in this position, my body knows how to drive. But I also prefer to be in that position, maybe when I’m just kicking back. And I always fall to a side. And it’s almost like, the more you are consciously playing with those things in a training environment, where you’re very conscious of the pieces that you’re playing with, you become consciously aware of where you’re strong, and where you can perform and where you can be confident and almost just settle into your being. And there’s other points that take you out of that and make you fearful, it’s threatens your safety, but those things aren’t bad, those are like touch points to just continue to embody this space, you’re creating space for your body to embody that space, right, you could go get a massage, or a chiropractic adjustment, like, Oh, I’ve got more space, but your body doesn’t know how to use that space yet, you’ve just created it. So now, you’ve provided an potentially a harmful environment, because now you’ve relaxed everything, and everybody’s gonna fall wherever you’ve trained it to be. But if you come out of those states with maybe some intentional mobility work, or loaded mobility work or, or strength work, or just reaction work, and now you’re playing with this new, this new body, in a sense, or this newfound awareness, that’s where you continue to find the gains is not just in the strength, that’s a huge piece of it. But you’re playing with your x, y, and z coordinates, your positions of all right, your lunge forward, back, or sideways, or wherever your direction is, you’re referencing that position, and now you’re changing your Y, like your ups and downs. But now you’re also changing your direction and your distance in that direction. So you’ve got these ways to play in that sphere. But now that you’ve gained access, what are you going to do with that? Are you going to do it up and down while you move through horizontal space are going to do it up and down and change your ranges while you move to horizontal space? Are you going to now add load to it, you’re gonna go faster or slower with it. And really what you’re playing with is the poles of potential, right? Of what if you can move forward, you can move back, you can move, right, you can move left? And how many ways can you do that? Because it’s not just that one thing, there’s always more opportunity there. And you can frame it in a way of what does that person need to do in life? What do I need to do in life? Okay, well, I need to consider what things do I enjoy doing and what things maybe do I avoid doing like maybe running hurts, so I just don’t run. But if it didn’t hurt, maybe I would go run. And so like there’s like a wall up. And so we can start to explore and get beyond that wall, not by breaking it down or jumping over it. But by just realizing there’s a way through the wall or around that wall that we’re like, oh, this thing was invisible. It was my own mindset, my own. Maybe you felt you were a victim to your pain or an injury or something that happened to you and just can’t get beyond it. But also maybe just didn’t ever have an outlet? Or another way to explore it. You’re kind of trapped in what you were taught. And maybe you’ve you’ve stopped being curious or playful in that space. But like coach you mentioned is like, let’s get yourself into a lunge. Okay? Well, if that hurts your knee, can we hold it into an isometric position, or a range of it? And then if we can just play in that space and move up and down and side to side and rotation with our body is going to become more aware of that that may be now when we step we experienced pain? Is it a different feedback? Is it now like oh my gosh, I stepped in I realized I stepped differently on my left and right leg? Oh my gosh, how did my left leg do it that didn’t have pain? How do my right leg do it that did have pain? Wow, my other leg was holding back like it was stopping me from going forward. Now we’re playing with tensions or just an intent in the motion. And we may have have realized we thought we needed to learn this way. But we’re just putting a limitation on how we could do it. And now by exploring these other ways that we can step or lunge without pain, all of a sudden, we go back to that old pattern like that didn’t hurt. What kind of sorcery Did you just pull on me? It’s like, what kind of magic did you do? And it’s like, I don’t really, I mean, it’s a tough way to explain it and to understand, like, how did that work? But let’s focus on how that initially worked. But let’s, let’s continue that thought process of just exploring where your success is, and trying to flirt with that line or flirt with that boundary where like, just on the other side, there’s discomfort or you threaten your safety, but just behind it, you feel completely fine. Can we play at that boundary? And then, as the time goes on, does that continue to get larger? And I mean, I think in most cases, if not all of them, it does because we’ve just set up an opportunity to communicate was something that wasn’t communicating thoroughly, or fully.
Ben
I like that a lot. I also really liked what you mentioned with the wall. Because that’s like what we’re doing is basically saying to people, there’s a wall. Anything that you could think of as far as overcoming this obstacle is completely fun. Where conventionally people just say, you have to just break through the wall, you got to run through it. And then we’re saying, Now hold on, you can climb over it, you can go around it to the right, you can go around it to the left, you can also dig under it just as much as of course, you can run through it. Maybe like you say, it’s an imaginary wall. And you could just walk through it with belief, maybe you could fly over it. That’s basically like what we’re doing, right? We’re saying, there’s many ways, you know, many paths to the top of the mountain, instead of the conventional, there’s one or two ways to do this, and one of them is good, and one of them is evil, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, we’re saying no life opens up, when you start to realize that it’s problem solving. It’s like beating a level in a video game, you know, everyone’s gonna run the game level. And they’re gonna do it a little bit different painos supermario, right, maybe someone skips, smashing one of the mushrooms, and they just want to speedrun it, maybe others, they want to go through every single thing and go down all the pipes and get all the coins and get every single thing through that level. And they’re both right, they’re both fine, right? Like,
CJ
that. Second one’s way better, dude, experience all of it. That’s my, that’s yeah, we’re gonna go through because at the end of the level of experience, everything in that level,
Ben
you know, when that’s completely valid, right? Like, we’re trying to show people Hey, man, how you get to your lunch is how you get to it, we’re gonna try and do the stuff that helps it be the best experience for you. But also, we’re fully cool with whatever that ends up being is going to be what it is. And it may not be whatever people say is textbook and strong. But if you’re strong, and you’re healthy in that position, and we took into account everything from, you know, anatomy and organs, and all this kind of stuff, and like muscle mass and how it could and should function when healthy, and then take into account that now that’s what yours ends up at. That’s your technique for dealing with the wall. Hell fucking Yeah. And I’m glad that we got you there. You know, I’m saying, yeah,
CJ
yeah. I think as a way to kind of tie this all into, because we’re pulling from a lot of different concepts, and just ways of narrating the story of movement and experience really comes down to movement, everything is moving. But the way you do it may be with weights. And with training excessively, it may be just getting that one rep for the day. But that’s what you need of a specific thing. And I think really, what we’re kind of communicating about is how our body our webbing, our entire unit, is able to, again, explore that space around us so that we feel more a part of it. And we feel more connected to our present our present time, like what we’re experiencing right now. And where we’ve come from, and where we’re going, we have this planet point of reflection. And the way I see it is kind of more awake, it’s within our fascia, we’re learning more about our fascia like every single day and understanding that, wow, it actually connects every single organ and bone and blood vessel and brain and like everything is connected through this fascial network. And really, everything we’re doing is giving that fascial network and the nerves, their data points for our body to process because if we tried to process them consciously, we would never be able to have this conversation, we would just be so overwhelmed with the millions and millions of words and sounds and sensations and flashes that are going through our body has a body essentially has more wisdom than we will ever truly understand. But that’s kind of the game is to just continue to uncover what we already know. We’re just reminding ourselves of it. It’s reminding and kind of mining that fascial network, like how would you describe fascia and the fascial network. And I mean, that’s really something that connects every single one of us at such a deep level to the literally our root in the very center of our being like the the fascia goes through that and takes us all the way out. How would you describe fascia? And then it would be a simple sense and maybe how you would frame your process of moving practice that ties into fascia as well.
Ben
The way that I talked about fascia and understand it is like, imagine having millions if not billions, of little movement brains, and they store everything, they’re always recording. And that’s actually a great tie in for injuries that people will get over the initial pain, stimulation of the injury. But yet, the imbalance in the body remains because it’s stored in the fascia the fascia remembers, and it tries to do anything it possibly can to avoid going back into that position. So then it’ll stack the body in like an odd way and do all the different stuff. So that’s why tuning into fascia is so important. And like it’s starting to become more prominent in industry, which is fantastic. But then the many, many don’t understand its importance and they don’t know how to navigate it and I love that you said mining And that you got to go mining in the fashion, you got to go in there and find out like, how do I basically tune this section of little movement brains that fascia is to be like, that’s an okay position for me to revisit or venture into for the first time. That’s fashion, that’s a conversation that you’re having with your fashion. I love it. And that’s how people really fix things, right? Because when you’re working with the fashion, you really get that tune the muscle now all of a sudden is going to sit where it needs to you don’t need to focus on all this stuff that beyond the muscle this and release the muscle, it’s like, talk to the fascist, you know, the fascist, like the one who runs the university. You know, the muscles are like the teachers, they follow the orders of the one who’s in charge of the the the movement university, you know,
CJ
I mean, the fascia, the fascia is kind of the, the boundary setter, and it decides, based on your action intent, it decides, I’m going to it’s almost like your fascia in your mind or trying to collaborate. But a lot of times, our mind doesn’t want to collaborate with the fascia, because we just haven’t turned on that communication line. Like we’ve just, we’ve unhooked that phone. And it was like, Yo, look what you’re doing to me, but I have no way of talking to you. So I’m just going to send you signals using nerves and stuff like to pay attention so that you can plug that phone backhand, right. And once it’s plugged in, I’m going to call you, but you also have to pick it up. Like you might just have it ringing. And it’s like, I’m just gonna ignore that pain, or you’re in the car and your check engine lights on and you’re like, I’m just waiting for that light, because I don’t really know what to do about this. We’ll put a post it note over it and just ignore it, or go to somebody else. It’s like, well, let’s, let’s have this. If we kind of combine those two analogies, let’s have this detector, let’s have this little stud finder, you know, this little piece that says like, I found something, as opposed to just getting the signal that is is painful, then we avoid it, we just unplug it again, like I’m just gonna stop it. Because that thing’s gonna keep bringing and it’s gonna start knocking on your door. And then it’s going to barge in and they’re like, why are you why are you invading my space? Okay, an injury, a slipped disc, something that’s just completely traumatic. They like, damn it, and I’m a victim. But you’re fascist like I’ve been trying to tell you for a while, but you just haven’t been paying attention. And by moving, we start to plug in that phone again. And by moving and experiencing new things and uncomfortable spots. It’s basically we’re having these conversations for the first time we’re learning how to communicate with new friends, new practices, new intents that were like it’s uncomfortable at first, because we don’t know, I don’t know, it’s the unknown. I don’t know what happens from here. But if we just keep visiting that space, our fashion, our mind will do the behind the scenes work, we just have to trust that they know what they’re doing. And it’s a good day versus the day that’s out to get you, our body and our mind are all trying to work together to just set you up for more success or set ourselves up for more success. And I feel like there’s so many methodologies out there that that do set people up for success do you set coaches and athletes up for success. But we almost get lost in our own dogma of that. That phone line is the one that works. But other people have different ways of communicating that there’s so many methodologies if we just learned to take the pieces of each one that worked for us, we can develop this own blueprint, our own communication network, our own way to communicate to the web of our body, that now we start to see how other people are communicating with their body. And now our path to coaching is there because we’re We’re just helping other people share that communication. We’re helping others do that for themselves. Like you become your own coach, but we’re all coaches of each other too. We’re all holding each other’s hands. We’re also letting each other go explore on our own and go and look what I found, right look what I explored. Along the way, it’s uncomfortable. But there’s a lot of man that too,
Ben
is fucking gold. Yeah, like, as far as the methodologies, anyone who sees my content, I mess around with everyone like I like to screw around. That’s just me. I’m playful, I like to, but it’s not like evil in nature. It’s just like the same way that kids you know, trash talk each other like wound assured berry like, you know, it’s just, but really, like they’re all true. Every methodologies methodology is true. Not saying it’s the only way that stuff the marketing stuff is not true. But their experiences and the stuff that they’ve discovered is true. Because why? Belief, Anyone that believes a certain thing about the way that the world works or the way that it’s presented to them. They live that as being their truth. It’s like they’ve navigated a path, they’re experienced, they’ve done it wack method, go to Z health, whatever, that’s their map, and then they’re sharing with other people for them. That’s true, because that’s their map. 100% true, right. But I would Say it’s like how would I put this into words, there’s different levels ingredients to this stuff. So it’s kind of like someone who is an explorer of the world, they’re going to have a certain understanding of that world from an explorers perspective. But they might not see something at the same perspective that someone who lives in that one culture, because in that one culture, they find out the intricacies. So they can teach something to the Explorer to the person that’s used to just going everywhere and just dipping and dunking. So that’s how I view the methodologies. It’s like they’re all one isolated strand of the overall truth. And then going to them and learning from them, you can learn something about the intricacies of something that you may not have learned from jumping from move to move to move and method to method to method and spending just a little bit of time. So I feel like everyone’s really working towards the same thing. But like, there’s the competitive nature that makes it skewed. It’s like, just own your strand. It’s like we’re all colors in a rainbow. And like the blue ones may be no only blue. And it’s like, you still are in a rainbow and all the colors are still there. And maybe if you’re cool with being like, here’s my method, here’s what I discovered, here’s how I can show you things that maybe you didn’t learn. And then the other method is like, and we have a differing view. And here’s what we found, and it’s all true. It’s just having the ability to like, go through it. You know, there’s more than one music No, no, one’s only a, there’s many, and then it makes a song. So that’s the what I view all the different trainers and methodologies. Without the jokes, though, making fun of people aside, it’s like, we’re all working for the same thing. We’re trying to figure out what this meat sack is that we got, and how we experienced the most the vitality in it, and then explored and have fun. Yeah.
CJ
Yeah, it’s it’s a it’s a beautiful practice. There’s the same that goes like the things from from Joe Dispenza. Or if you know, I’m sure you’ve heard about Dr. Joe. Yep. But he goes like the, the ultimate ultimate state of receivership is gratitude or gratitude is like the ultimate state. And I see that through like people in fitness and in health and just in movement in general, that everybody’s practice is an expression of gratitude for the ability to move, like we’ve received this ability to move. How do we express the gratitude for it, and there’s euphoria in that in that expression. But the choice to go practice is the hard part. Because it’s like, oh, we need to be told what the benefit is, you know, it’s the marketing that kind of pulls people in. But it’s the practice, it’s the principles that that practices based on that really is what you feel, and we tend as humans to be like, Oh, I made the choice because of the marketing to go do this thing. And this is the thing, that is why I feel so good. But there’s the other layer that’s like, it’s the act of doing that thing. And being with that practice, and being present with learning and growth and curiosity and expression and communication, that that’s the, you’re pulling yourself back to that source of gratitude back this source of practice. And I think if we if we start to realize that more as beings and practices practitioners, and coaches and trainers and, and therapists that we’re all along those same lines, and we’re just helping people find that path back to that expression of gratitude, like, nobody’s gonna deny when they feel when you feel gratitude, it wholeheartedly. It’s like, Man, I just feel like I want to hug people, I’m happy for being here. And it’s almost sometimes seems like a fake emotion or a fake experience, because it’s so heavy and deep that people are, it’s like terrifying, because it’s it’s embodying, it’s, like, I get kind of shaky and like, vibe, you’re talking about this, because I have so much joy when I move. And I get so focused and like frustrated. And that’s all part of the joy is like frustration of learning. And like recognizing that emotion that’s coming through you to pull you deeper into that expression deeper into that, that release whatever it is. And I think if we can realize that, as practitioners as guides, that we are just helping that thread people along that thread, but knowing that this thread is again, part of that larger blanket, or part of this larger weave that in its entirety, that is the full expression, that we’re still learning new ways to do it. And we’re taking back old ways, ancestral ways, and we’re developing and refining new ways of framing them in our culture and our time. That’s, that’s specific to us. So it makes sense logically, that we’re doing these weird things. But I think what we’re gonna start seeing more of is people doing weird exploratory stuff. And the more we do it together, the more we start to realize that wow, life is pretty weird. And this expression is pretty cool. And this connection is even more powerful than we could ever imagine. But we have to get beyond this. I know the answer and here it is for you and anybody who’s not on this answer is wrong. Because that then tears everybody apart. From the true source, we just yeah, in this little bubble, right?
Ben
Exactly, dude. And like, people are in the process of figuring out who they are. And you can’t do that without exploration and experimentation. So like, even the stuff that people think, you know, is weird. And whatever else, some people that’s always going to be there compass, but others, they’ll just experience like a thing like that. And then to settle into who they are and what they like, after going through that. It’s like kids, right? They go through everything, man, they do any move any, like, it’s graceful, and it’s clunky, and weird and awkward and fallen all the time and all that stuff. But by doing that, then they figure out who they are, and then now they start to really get to have it. So it seems like we’re going through that process again. And using movement as that catalyst to be like, who are we and what do we want to do, and it takes going through that weird stuff. And that awkward sort of like, what everyone’s seeing, but eventually, it’ll refine into, like, that’s their style, that’s what they want to do. It’s not always going to be this, this process, and like you do it every little bit along the way, you know, same way that like ourselves always cycle every seven years. And we’re basically like a completely different person on a cellular level, then from when we started and that process is, is chaotic. It’s not pretty, it’s this and that. But from that births, sort of like the lotus flower, if you will, like, like the lotus flowers birth from shit, right, one of the most beautiful flower comes from that the messy stuff that people want to do with it. And we’re basically telling people, you got to do that you got to explore, you got to figure it out. And it’s not going to look the same way as everyone else, that explorative process. But that fact is inevitable in that if you’re unsure of something, you have to mindmap brainstorm, experiment, try things to figure out what that something is in you and what you want it to be. A nice way to mix it down is like food. Everyone understands. Japanese culture has its food. Spanish culture has its food. Italian culture has its food. And they came to that sort of food standard, through experimenting and exploring the land around them. The foods, the flavors, the animals and stuff they have in their area. And then from that eventually mix it down to this is our thing. This is our style. We’re doing the same thing. But movement. They’re like the different cuisines, right? This method has this flavor that this one has that, but I’m using it all to figure out. What’s my standard, you know?
CJ
Yeah, man, I like my movement. Like I like my meals. Yeah, at a lot of colors. Shapes, weird things, good smells, you know, the whole experience. Yeah. Yeah. So beautiful. Man. I can’t wait to have another conversation. I mean, we could deep dive into a lot of things that we explored today. So I’m, I’m certainly ready to have some more of these. But I want to be mindful of your time and my time what we got going on later today. So Ben, thank you, first of all, for just sharing and kind of being open to explore different concepts and share your experience. And I’m looking for like diving deeper into your experience with the CFL, and injuries that you’ve experienced. Because I think that’s, that’s kind of the real sauce, the real meat that’s going on is those experiences, those direct experiences helped to shape who we become, because we can refer back to those, those painful experiences, those grateful experiences, those ones that we feel that really connected ourselves back into our body. And that’s where like, we start to, again, those those cells that develop every seven years like we create a new way of seeing in the world, a new way to look at the world. And a new way to really experience ourselves in the world in reference to this this suit, but also what’s outside of it, how are a part of this whole? After, right? So do you have any finishing touches or things that you want to you want to leave the world with, then in this first wave of conversation,
Ben
I would say I’ll set up like a trailer for like a pickup point for the next the next chapter. And it would be that the injuries, the way that I view them is like having a book. You don’t have to live with it. traumatically always inside yourself. It’s like a book, it’s on the shelf. And like you said, you can always go back into that book and read it and find something else new or revisit it and be like what did I learn from this like a movie every time you watch it, you can find something a little bit different. So it’s helps to revisit the movie that helps to open that book again sometimes and be like, This helped me reach my next level in my next step. It’s not evil, it’s not dangerous. And if I never experienced this book, I never would have learned the next thing. All right, fantastic. book back on the shelf, you know, injuries.
CJ
Brilliant. Then how can people Find you.
Ben
Just Instagram that just a warning to everyone No, I really like to screw around. Unless my movements cool stuff to where like I just do the street, street goods and stuff on my main account is the same thing I did when I was a kid and I just mess around to entertain myself and keep busy. So Instagram is probably the best one.
CJ
The entertainment of the movement industry. Beautiful. I always have a good time always come away learning something, the silly stuff and the more intentional stuff. I guess it’s all intentional and playful. But in the more refined strategic stuff. There’s always a little little bit of gold in there. And it’s, it’s always wonderful. So I’m looking forward to learning more from you and having more conversations, Ben. Appreciate your pleasure. Pleasure having you on man.
Ben
Thank you. It’s an honor. Not many folks want to want to talk to this whole weirdo. There appreciate being brave enough to get the outlaw on your podcast.
CJ
Yeah, man, I’m so stoked. I hope this there’s a lot of conversation and questions and more curiosity and more play in the world. We all do every single day. Um, with that, comment, until next time, take care do you
Michael Hughes
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