Fire Up Your Brain With Trent McEntire and His BrainSpeed Ball
Michael Hughes
Hey, welcome back to the Gymnazo podcast. I’m your host Mike Hughes with a special get guest, Trent McEntire, who I’ve been so excited to learn and understand what he’s done, the brain science and just the as I would say, how the brain really wires with movement, and he’s gone through so many different case studies in his professional career, but most importantly, his personal career. So Trent, I’m excited. It’s a big deal for us to have a guest on our on our podcast, and especially one of your caliber of understanding because it’s personal, and it’s professional. So as a trainer, welcome, but also as a personal athlete yourself.
Welcome to the Gymnazo podcast where you get to peek behind the curtains of what it takes to create and run a seven figure fitness facility that ranks in the top 5% of boutique fitness studios for revenue. But to be honest, that’s the least important thing about us. Founded by me, Michael Hughes, Gymnazo has created an ecosystem of services that blend performance with restoration techniques, and attracts top coaches to its facility hosted by its owners, Paden, and myself and our top coaches, this podcast shares our best practices on everything, from how to build a sustainable fitness business, to how to program for maximum results, to how to build a hybrid training module that’s online. And in person. We have marketing secrets, movement, innovation, and breaking down trends in the industry. If you’re a fitness professional, or fitness business owner, this is where you learned how to sharpen your skills and to see maximum results.
I want to hear your story. So did you mind start again?
Trent
Sure, thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to share everything that I can, that I can to help you know your audience and help people take their take their career forward. And like they have they have more tools that are readily accessible in their toolbox.
Michael Hughes
So yeah, it’s perfectly set up perfectly. Tools and toolbox. Yeah. So for those who don’t know your story, kick it off.
Trent
Yeah. So I think the most the most relevant thing is that, you know, I my whole life, I’ve always been athletic, I’ve always had natural athletic ability. And I play basketball, actually got into dance and became a professional dancer as a part of my trajectory. And on the way of doing that, I was in college, and the, the reality hit when I woke up one morning, and I could barely walk, I had inflammation from the knees down. I was I was pretty injured. I didn’t, I actually wondered if I was gonna be able to continue dancing. And even once I graduated, get into a company and have my body sustain the kind of athletic pounding that dancing requires. And, but I could barely walk and I thought, well, this, this might be yet and I happened to be home on a holiday break. And I was just complaining to my mom, like, I don’t get it like, why, why am I so tight and so restricted from the knees down? Like, it’s pretty specific to an area and it’s, it’s just a mobilizing, I just don’t get it. And she looked at me and she’s like, well, Trent, that’s because you were born with cerebral palsy. And I was like, I was 19. And I was like, right? I was like, wow, okay, let me just take that in for a minute. Let me just, let me just sit with that. And I’m not sure to be upset that you didn’t tell me, or to be thankful that you didn’t tell me because I didn’t have any kind of stigma around that label diagnosis. And she’s like, Yeah, don’t you remember when you were three, that the doctors put cast on your legs from the knees down? Because you had zero ankle mobility. So they had to force the muscles and tendons to stretch. And I was like, you know, I do have a memory of having these casts. And of course, you know, my family’s favorite thing to do is put plastic bags on them and throw me the snowbank because I couldn’t move. So it became a joke. And I remember that, you know, that micro trauma but no joke. You know, and, and so I was like, wow, that makes a lot of sense. And it gave me it gave me some inclination of what was going on that it wasn’t something that maybe was insurmountable, but something that I could problem solve through. And, you know, as a college student, we couldn’t afford anything. So I couldn’t afford to go to therapy or see PT, or train or anything to help recover. But it just so happened that my program had a lot of Kinesiology, anatomy, movement therapy modalities. And I decided to just experiment and see if I could solve a problem for myself. And what I realized is that I had, at that point, had some experience with Pilates. And so from a from a smart movement, strengthening perspective, that was good, but it wasn’t helping. It wasn’t solving my problem. And then I had this experience with these movement modalities, these therapies that were great for patterning but didn’t make me stronger. So what I did is, as I said, Well, what if I took took the two ideas and put them together? And, and I rehab my own injury. But that process was what took some time because I didn’t really know what I was doing. I was experimenting, I was my own guinea pig. And so I would just journal exercises that worked, exercises that didn’t work, how long they would work for comfort work for your lower leg discomfort. Yeah, this is primarily so I could walk in the morning, I just wanted to be able to function, you know. And so this, what I discovered, actually was, it was the, this is where I really clicked into understanding patterning. And then it wasn’t about an exercise, it was about an exercise that created patterning in my body, and neural pathways that could stick. And I could keep that movement and own that movement as a strong pathway. And, and, you know, later on, and in my career, when literature started coming out about neuroscience and brain research. I was like, Well, I gotta, I gotta read this stuff. Because I need to know this. This is like, I feel like this is really important. And I’m reading through these books. And I’m like, This is what I do. Like, wait, this is the language it put it put a language on what I’ve been doing for years. And it was like I just a ha moment is like, I have something to really lean into here.
Michael Hughes
Wow. So give us an example of a pattern that maybe you worked in your dorm room or your apartment, you know, kind of one that seems like wow, that that that worked?
Trent
Yeah. So it’s, it’s like you take a Thera band. This is the this was like the life changing exercise for me was taking a Thera band, and putting my heel in the band and holding on like, on my back, holding on to the ends of the band. Like you might see someone do leg circles or a hamstring stretch with their leg up in the air, right? Well, what I what I discovered was actually what I call the edge of ability, which is finding the the pattern and the movement that is productive, without being too easy. And without causing pain. And in that sweet spot in repeating it over and over again, it created mobility and strength. And I could lay down that pattern is something that I could own, because it wasn’t so intense that my brain and be like, nope, dump it. That’s, that’s overwhelming. I don’t like that. That’s terrible. I hate stretching dump it. And it wasn’t so easy, that it couldn’t stick that it wouldn’t have an impact on me. And that was the biggest light bulb was like that exercise unlocked that understanding of finding the sweet spot and becoming really more and more sensitive to what that sweet spot is.
Michael Hughes
Got it. So from that you were able to essentially move better from the lower body.
Trent
Yeah, we have my injury, I went on to be injury free dance professionally, without getting injured without having repetitive stress injuries without having tendinitis every day. So yeah, it was it was profound, but But honestly, I mean, that’s like, on my side of things, it was wonderful that I could do that for myself. But at the same time, I was taking on clients. So while I was while I was out when I was rehabbing myself, part of the program I was I was a TA for some of the courses and I was taking on students as clients. So I actually had guinea pigs, right at the beginning to try things on that were willing subjects. Thank goodness, we have our clients are getting things. I mean, it’s like it works on me. But as I work on someone else, and you know, they were they were getting credit for the class, and I was getting credit, and I got to be the TA so that carried into then working with clients on the street that were then paying for it out of their own pocket. And, you know, 25 years later. Yeah,
Michael Hughes
on a podcast, which now is Michael Hughes. So, so much. So many of at least myself, I’m a trainer, I was taught how to think about movement, I was taught how to understand the chemical actions from what happens at the big toe all the way up to your ear is right and unpack that. And you not only were taught that, but you taught yourself that me maybe not the same way. But I love what your story is, is that you had to decipher good, bad or indifferent in the moment. And so there’s a to me, there’s a special when you’re a true nature of an experience, like you went through, you didn’t hire a coach, you experienced it yourself. And you had not only the intuition, but the drive to just say let’s keep trying. Let’s keep going. That to me, I had to highlight that because that’s something that’s a special and I think what makes your program stand out more so because it was you’re not a you’re not in broker of knowledge. You are the creator of this knowledge. So I’ve just a tip of the hat to that because that’s it’s really something special when you get to get to that kind of I don’t use word capability. You have a And someone else can do that as well. But you have a deep, deep understanding of personally what it feels like. So that’s really cool. And I, I freaking love it to be quite frank with you. Because we talk a lot about that. And our training and conditions, like he said perfectly, at least from from my years, you can’t go into pain. But it can’t be too easy, right? Where’s the growth? Where’s the growth? Well, it’s not on the other end of the spectrum. You know, it’s, but it’s not to middle because it’s going to take too long. You got to learn and has to be it. So. So talk about that a little bit more with, with what you’ve done, what you’ve created, and as a professional now, how you how you built a tool to flirt with that level of challenge and growth. And bring up the bring up that the I would say that’s right, it is the brains people.
Trent
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the other thread that was happening this whole time, with the class one cerebral palsy and overcoming the injury, the other thread that’s wound through all of this is that reading was always really hard for me.
Michael Hughes
That’s right, and you went to a conference.
Trent
So as an adult, but like, as, as a kid, you know, I’m in third grade, I’ll never forget, like third grade, parent teacher conferences, Trump’s really struggling reading. So here’s what we’re gonna do. That thing is really hard for him. We’re gonna give them more of that, in fact, we’re gonna double it up. I know, it’s hard for him, but we’re gonna double it up to help them improve it really make. Right? Well, it wasn’t literacy that I had an issue with, it was literally the strength of my eyes, as it turns out the strength and coordination of my eyes, to track together on a page to be able to physically read what was there. And what I would experience in reading was basically, who would put me to sleep, I’d be one or two sentences into reading anything. And it was so overwhelming for my eyes to not work together, that my brain would just shut down and I’d fall asleep. And so when I was in my 30s, I had gone to a conference, but it was like, this perfect alignment of situation because in my, my workaround for struggling with reading was audiobooks. I was like, let’s, let’s just like bypass reading and do audiobooks, I’m good, I can get a subscription to Audible. Perfect. And so then I was, you know, what I would describe as, quote, reading a book, a book series. And I was talking to a client of mine about this book series, I was reading and I’m, I’m on the next book, and I’m looking forward to it. And, and I didn’t say audiobook, because I had shame around why I was listening to an audiobook. So I didn’t, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t mention that piece of it. And, and so she thought she’d be generous. And the next time she saw me, she brought me the next book in the series. I don’t like now I have to download the audio, I’ve got to listen to it my trip to California, so that when I come back, I can say that I read it, I had this whole narrative going through my head if like to so that I wouldn’t, you know, to point or, and make to make the gift look bad. So I took book with you. Right, right, I took the book with me, I’m going to download the audio, I get to the conference. And there just happens to be a vision therapist at the conference. And I did a few exercises. And having, you know, years of experience at that point, over 10 years of experience, and working in neuroplasticity and building new neural pathways. When when I brought the eyes into the picture, it just clicked for me. It’s like, I haven’t been bringing my senses into this this whole time. It’s not fully because within just a few minutes of doing some exercises, and then, you know, me being me playing with different things that I could invent different exercises that I could come up with right there at the conference. I go back to my booth, and a friend had stopped by and I missed her. And so she wrote me a note. And I picked it up and I read it like I’ve never read in my life. And it was just a few minutes of doing eye exercises. And yeah, exactly, exactly. And yeah, and so that lit a fire to consider more like, like, take the walls off, take the period away. Just be open to considering that there’s more here. And and that was the start of developing the brain speed ball. So, you know with with the the the idea by the way, so just talk about the ball itself just so we have a context. The idea of having a ball with letters and numbers on it is not the innovation. Okay? That’s it I’m not the first person to print something on a ball. That’s not what this is about.
Michael Hughes
Is tools are either past or weapons for things that are right.
Trent
Well, so in a vision therapy, they’re using a like a all hardball with letters and numbers on it and kind of hanging from a string There’s a lot of really powerful exercises and tools and techniques that they use in vision therapy. But what’s missing for like my inner eight year old, is it’s not fun. It’s just like really not engaging. It’s not creative, it doesn’t spark your brain. And when I think about the clients that I’ve worked with, in the people that I’ve helped, and the professionals that I’ve worked with, with their clients, you know, people come in and they have part of them broken, there’s something in them, that really needs a therapeutic approach they need, they need problem solving around movement. And if it’s too serious, they don’t want to, they don’t want to do it, it’s just too much. So you make it fun, and seemingly too easy to be true. And you unlock possibilities and you give, it gives you a way in to find solutions where maybe you the doors would have been closed. Because it’s not fun. It’s not creative. It’s not engaging.
Michael Hughes
Some subconscious reaction training. It’s not a fancy term, but right, it’s you hidden to me. You’re on it, you know, it’s exactly if it’s not fun, then who cares? Who cares? What you’re going to do, because it training conditioning, simply that it’s repetition. And whoever said practice makes perfect, really missed the boat. It’s practice makes permanent. So your practice better be good, or how to be intentional to what you want it to be training, because whatever your training will get better at. And if you’re missing the boat, like I said, you’re you’re wrong in the subconscious, right. So much of our of our industry is like ooh, flex the core, tighten your abs, right, then do the drill. You know, that’s, that’s No, that’s no conscious. And so dive into that more dive into that, that kind of sub subconscious reaction that you’re eliciting with a colorful ball with numbers and letters on it.
Trent
Yeah. So if you and I were playing a game of brain speed ball, we’d be throwing it back and forth. So right away, just just the fact that you’re catching a ball means that you you’re not planning and where it’s coming from, you’re just reacting to it. Right? So that reaction means that you react to it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And in so there’s a built up built in element to bypass like, stand perfect catch, perfect catch like this, tighten your core foot, like, no, just catch the ball, that’s the task, or what we want to do is want to give the brain a task to do. So it can it can it can coordinate your center your systems to accomplish the task, that’s a much healthier way to approach solving the problem. So the task is catch the ball. And so then all of your systems, all of your senses coordinate with the brain, so that you move your body and you catch the ball. So that’s why sports with a ball can be so profound for someone to improve their life. Now, the way that that I want to uplevel it here is that, you know, what research has really shown us is that there is a direct connection between the eyes and the brain. And in fact, they are the same, like they are directly connected as the same, same thing. And so when you look at the fact that we know that perception, and action come together, like whatever you perceive comes with action, whatever action you have, needs perception. And that’s really where the senses come in. And the eyes being profoundly important to the brain, it prioritizes the information from the eyes. So when you’re playing again, the catch, and you’re using your eyes to track the ball, now we have your one of your most important senses attention. Without telling you, Michael, I want you to use your eyes and look like this and do this and that like that conscious instruction. But I’m just saying just track the ball, catch the ball. Now track the ball, just watch the ball come into your hands. And so now we have these two tasks that your brain is doing. Then, what I want to do is I want to see really what your eyes are capable of just like you would want to do an assessment with your client, how strong are they, their mobility of fast, et cetera, coordinated range of motion, all the things you might measure on what you guys call a 3d assessment, right? So you take, you take those pieces, and when you look at the eyes, we want to do the same thing. I want people to understand that they can look at the strength, coordination, range of motion, speed of the eyes. And when you do that, you change the game. So when we’re playing this game, back and forth, and I’m throwing you the ball, I can start to see where you drop the ball more. So maybe when I throw it to your left, you drop the ball more often. It tells me that there’s some weakness when the eyes are moving to your left. So if if you have if your perception through your eyes is limited in some way, then the actions are limited. That’s the connection in the brain and in the output. So if I can improve your perception and your field of vision and how strong your eyes work together, then I can I can improve the action. Quickly, minutes.
Michael Hughes
What I love about game breaking, not gameplay, because he’s been bleeding edge science in the movement industry is this is how profound it really comes down to be. The common is this, that just makes so much sense. Like that common. That just makes so much sense. And yet, it’s like, Oh, I’ve never thought of that before. But it’s common sense that that comes to play in we’re talking about dynamic movement patterns, and how a knee should really load is sort of like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, versus this theoretical case study, hopefully, we find the bell curve, and everyone fits within that bell curve. So you know, the person in front of you is the case study, that is all you need. That’s all you need is that person in front of you. And if you can know how to think and attach certain actions to certain biological, neural, neurological pathways that just are direct connections, undeniable truth, you have an assessment, you have, therefore an assessment given a progression tool, and you have an outcome that can be easily measured, just by throwing that ball to the left for a second time, right after you do the exercises to it. And I’m gonna be honest there for us who looks so much into proprioception. And that’s a big broad term. I’m excited to add an AI component now. excited, very excited.
Trent
So it changes everything. It’s like, it’s like, you know, it doesn’t have to change your identity. As a personal trainer, it only improves your status, like it only gives you a tool, it’s like, yeah, well, if I think about the, the number of trainers that are not incorporating the eyes, not incorporating a fun quick game, then they’re really working with one arm tied behind their back, while thinking that they’re studying so hard, and they are, but they’re just not opening a particular chapter, they’re just not considering a particular piece. And so when you start to include that piece into the into your view, your assessments get better. And by the way, your clients don’t even know that it’s also an assessment, because the game, while being an assessment, is, in real time, the exercise that your eyes and your brain needs. And the cool thing is that your your clients can’t watch you watching them while they’re playing the game. So that self consciousness of like, Oh, he’s watching me which assessments can bring up for people, it just totally goes away. And I’ve had all ages and abilities from kids with with very little issues too severe issues to clients that have had a stroke, Parkinson’s, pro athletes, you name it. And those that self conscious piece goes away, because then they can, they’re too busy processing, they’re too busy applying that solution that you that task that you’ve asked them to do, you have to worry about what you’re thinking about them in their assessment.
Michael Hughes
Yeah, this is again, hitting on another point, we’re not just trainers of the physical, or trainers of the biological and most importantly, we’re trainers of the behavioral. And you can trick them, I do mean that ethically trick someone focus on what you truly want them to focus on, remove exactly what you just said. Results just happen faster. It’s just that simple. Just that and it sticks. It’s really what we’re looking for, we’re looking for stickiness. Truly the the the changing of how something is done, the path that an action is taken that it was one path for you. And now it’s new path. Both paths or paths or options. Once more efficient, one’s better. One has longer, or better view ways to view letters as an example. Just Yeah, awesome. Awesome, awesome. Last. Something I wanted to bring up real quick, as you were kind of describing this whole process, we use what we call different drivers to to subconsciously make someone perform a task. So if I say squat, right, and you’re just going to squat the way that your body easily squats, but if I say Squat and reach both hands as far in front of you as possible, as you squat, it’s going to change the reaction of your squat. Because you have a different different vector of of motion. You have these limbs that weigh anywhere from 20 pounds plus way out there you have to counterbalance them so typically your pelvis is going to go further backwards because your hands going forwards And I picked up on that is we use AI drivers. Yeah, as you’re doing a lunch, literally, you take your eyes and look somewhere. But I’m realizing that there’s a limitation to that. And you brought that up is maybe your eyes don’t do that. The way that you just think they naturally should. And yes, because there’s musculature there that is super finite, and ice, super finite. And so what I like about it, we’re talking about nerves, but it still goes back to control. How do you control your eyes? Can you dive just maybe even quickly, of the exercise that you first did? Or? Or did in your hotel room? What it seems like were the cases? And like, what was that for you? Like? How did you realize that your eyes were not tracking words on a page that made it successful for you to read with that? Kind of like, oh, my gosh,
Trent
yeah, it wasn’t until after I did the eye tracking exercises, that I realized that was the problem, because I didn’t, I didn’t have a diagnosis, I didn’t have a problem. I’m just like, really, I’m terrible at reading, I’m just not good at it. And it wasn’t until it was just, you know, it’s just a vision, wanna stick with the ball on the end of it, and just tracking it as it was moving in various pathways. And just asking both eyes to see the same thing at the same time, while moving in space. And just asking that of the eyes and focusing my attention on doing that, that that very next minute, I could read better. And that was like, that is directly connected to reading, I see the connection. And also, it you know, when when your systems work better, when they’re integrated and efficient. You’re also calmer, so like this, this goes right to like lowering stress response. And in, in training, if your clients got a stress response to something, you’re not going to have access to new patterns, new pathways, not healthy ones, are gonna shut down. So, you know, a lot of times, you know, well, you might have like, you might have a specific thing that you want to improve. It might be reading, it might be athletic speed, it might be coordination, it might just be balanced, and not tripping, and might be for kids focus, whatever that is, those things are within reach, but also just lowering the stress responses lowering that heightened fight or flight that can happen so easily, especially over the last year and a half for people that it gives you access to more opportunity. And so I that’s what I felt, I felt like the earth tilt was like that just changed how I consider things.
Michael Hughes
I just took a deep breath, right, right now to just read myself into more relaxation. I love it. Um, so when did this come together? Like, okay, you’re at that point of highly skilled dancer, but also just someone who lives life. And I’m sure when you go to read a menu at a restaurant, or reading the speed sign for crying out loud, right? There’s so many things where it’s you, it’s unavoidable. You can sounds like if you did a good job avoiding it socially. But in actuality, you’re in your own head. So when did this come together? Like when Africa think I can gift the world with something here? Yeah.
Trent
This started in 2006. That’s when the the wheel and the ball started rolling down the hill. And I was just, like, scrambling for. For me, it was important to make this accessible for people, like, because there’s a lot of solutions that are very expensive, and very few people do them. And they’re not accessible. And for me, the most exciting part about this was like, How could i How could I do something that’s accessible? How can I first of all, it started with training professionals on how to consider this. So I spent for years I’ve worked with professionals, you know, physical therapists, occupational therapists, Pilates teachers, personal trainers, psychologists, psychiatrists on bringing this into their practice. And then when I got the idea of like, you know, we need a fun ball, not a boring tool, not a boring vision wand, but like a fun ball to play games with. Then it’s like, yeah, this is this is really where we can make this accessible, because they can teach anybody to play simple game. And we can up level and we can download the game for the person who’s in front of us to make it so that they can find their edge of ability, they can work within that zone, where it’s productive, but I think too easy, like we said, are too hard that it causes a stress response. And I just say just going back to like, you’re talking about doing the squat or doing a movement and finding a focal point. It’s one of one of the one of the fun things that happens when I’m working with golfers, especially like Elite Pro, pro golfers as they don’t often have the awareness that they lose sight of the ball and that their eyes are not on the ball the whole time. And so, when you when you like for Example I saved, like, bring your clubs and I want to see your swing. And they’re like, don’t mess with my swing, I’m like, I’m not going to tell you anything to do with your swing, I’m not going to change it, correct it, tweak it, because I know I know how it is, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna go there with you. But I just want to see, you know, how your senses are working. And so they come in and, and then I watched them on their on their backswing, take your eye off the ball for just a second. And then it comes back to the ball. So for a second, they’ve got they’ve got bad information of where that ball is, where they are in relationship with the ball, and so that their brain is processing poorly, it’s gonna have poor information, so that perception equals action is gonna be good action. So to improve the action, I gotta improve the perception. So I just did eye exercises, and then their swing was beautiful. And they did better on the golf course. And they’re like, I don’t understand it, but I love it. You know? And, and that’s the thing is, like, you know, when you’re when you’re watching someone, and you’re saying, find a focal point, then as a trainer, you can go, are they keeping the focal point? Can they keep that focal point? Can they keep a different focal point? Can they do this exercise and scan. And, and that gives you information, so you know what you’re dealing with, because if they can’t do those things that they struggle on particular areas, then you can build some simple games around that particular area, then go back into the same exercise and watch it get better because I’m, I’m a huge proponent of testing, I want to I want to measure the results, I want to see what you struggle with. Play the game that I feel like it’s most appropriate for you, and then test it and see if it if it matters right now for you. And if it doesn’t, I better make a change. So it doesn’t matter for you. Because in the end, that’s why our clients are hiring us make this matter for me and my life, whatever that means for them.
Michael Hughes
I love golf. So you just get off on a solid nerve pun intended on that one. To pay attention to
Trent
swing right don’t don’t tell you how to swing for sure.
Michael Hughes
Yeah, but the profoundness of what I believe you’re tapping into what you’re sharing is, there’s so much to focus on. There’s so much information out there, the training world, there’s magazines dedicated to just pumping out a new article on something hot and trendy just to keep the person engaged. And there’s so much simplicity. And just like wait a minute, how are your input sensors are going about your output? Honestly, regardless, your output? How’s your interview? How’s your sense? You know, like people will have people with the hip replacement, knee replacement, even a massively sprained ankle, the nerves are not communicating as strongly, they’re still there. But sometimes they’re cut, you know, a scar tissue is literally a break in nervous. Communication. Okay, so the eyes know what I mean, we know that balance is basically a three fold sensory input your inner ear, your proprioception through the context that you’re in, in stance with and your eyes, right? Well, that’s why I say shut your eyes do balance, it’s harder well done, because it’s a massive sensory input. And I think every trainer knows that kind of tweak to a balanced drill, you know, but there didn’t really understand why. So you briefly went on it, but I would love a more of a deep dive, if you don’t mind on how the AI truly has just kind of take us through that path, from your understanding, from the input to the brain, to not just to the brain, it has to do something with it, right? It has to grind it through, then it has to go back out to the system into motor action. So take us through that, if you don’t mind. So yeah, so
Trent
the first thing to really understand is that, you know, you talked about the proprioception, the vestibular and the visual, right, those three components, the something that’s really important, first of all, is that all three of those components are often not considered. Now, you might, you might think, because you’re saying, as a trainer, close your eyes, I mean, I’ve seen it, I’ve done it, I’ve heard it, it can be really profound, close your eyes, and then you get some great work with your eyes closed. But, or turn your head to the side and or take take your gaze, but here’s the thing, your brain prioritizes the information and the eyes get the top top slot. So if your eyes are open, that information wins. And so if you’ve got weakness or imbalance in the eyes, even though you’ve been practicing this great balance exercise with your eyes closed, and you hadn’t certain position and it’s really going well. As soon as you open your eyes, that information wins. And if there’s bad information there, it’s going to affect the rest of the systems. And so that’s where I want to go there first, I want to go there right away. And and you know, we know there’s a tie to that Visual decline and cognitive decline, Vision decline and movement decline like they are, they’re together, the eyes and the brain are the same. And what’s happening is that as a as a culture, like, we measure acuity, we measure how well you can see something sharply. And most for most people, that’s where that’s, so if you, if you measure your acuity, it’s like, okay, you need glasses, you don’t need glasses, you need this, this prescription, etc. And that’s kind of like all we think about with eyes, we don’t what we don’t look at the strength range of motion, coordination, flexibility, all the things that the eyes are dealing with, but if their eyes are open, the brain is listening to them the most. And so, when you when you when you consider that, it’s like, okay, how then you ask yourself the question, how much eye exercises or involvement am I bringing into a session. And if you find yourself hitting a wall, and, or they your clients are hitting a wall, they’re plateauing. They come back, you hit you did so well, last time you push them so hard to come back, and then they’re the same, or they’re a little worse. So they vaccinated, but you keep doing and coaching and tweaking and do this and do that and hold this and squeeze that. But they’re not getting better. That’s a huge sign that the issue is in their senses, and it’s probably in their eyes. And if you go there next, you can measure in real time, the improvement, and then that easy homework that they can do, they can play the game by themselves against the wall or with their partners, or kids or whatever, and keep that progress. So it’s a very easy solution to a big problem. Because I, you know, trainers want to be, you know, they want to have fun with their clients do they want to feel like they’re doing the same thing every day with their clients never get better. So, so first, it’s just understanding that hierarchy that exists. And if you consider that hierarchy as a secret weapon, which is what it is right now. It’s it’s a profoundly impactful secret weapon. That’s huge. Now, you know that, that carries you into understanding the cycle that our brain uses to think about things and create output. So you know, this, this idea of, you know, like a dam throwing the ball to you, you’re sensing where the ball is, where you’re catching it, you’re tracking with it, you’re deciding to catch it quickly, you’re deciding to track it, you’re deciding to say what I tell you to say out loud, it’s like, if you catch it, I want you to say what you see out loud, now you’ve decided to say it out loud. And then you act on saying it out loud. So that sense, decide Act is a cycle, that cycle is happening in your brain all the time. You’re taking information in deciding what to do about it, and then acting acting on it. And so since we’re already wired that way, this isn’t about like, I I’ve hacked the brain, here’s a new way to hack the brain. This is how your brain is wired. Let me just tell you how to get access, let me open the door for you. Because if we play this game, we’re going to be tapping into that sense, decide act cycle. And then because we’re dealing with your eyes, and the brain wants to hear from the eyes as a priority, we can make the highest stronger, that sensory cycle improves, the actions and output improve. And it’s really that simple. And you can measure it in real time. And I know I keep saying that, but it’s really important for people to know that. I want to hold myself accountable in a session, right? That’s why I’m measuring I want to make sure that I’m just not going well, I’ve got a good idea. This idea is great. Well, I actually want to prove it to me in a session, is this the right solution for my client? And so testing it, for me is a way to validate that I’m on the right track so that I can keep moving forward.
Michael Hughes
Now as a trainer yourself to you is that you say is that all you do? Is that like you would say a hyper specialist? Or have you do you incorporate Pilates into it still your corporate strength training. Tell me how you operate as a besides just someone who has an amazing product and you want to influence people’s lives with it. What else do you do with it? So if I was to do that as an actual movement practitioner player
Trent
Yeah, that’s a great question. And it depends on the client. A lot of times my clients are doing Pilates exercises I might be using Pilates equipment might be in my studio. But it doesn’t have to be. So it could also be that they just love the foam roller and we do work on the foam roller they love, you know the large physio ball and that’s what we do. It doesn’t have to be Pilates specific. It happens to be a modality that I use a lot. And so in my studio, that’s the movement modality that I use the most. But also even with that even within that modality I’ve made so many changes based on what how I understand how I problem solve my own injury that exactly Pilates how most people experience Pilates, it’s, it’s really bringing the neural piece into Pilates so you consider the senses when moving the body but certainly I get many I get many calls. And I have many clients that are not Pilates clients. They’re not movement clients. They are brain clients. And these are people that, like I have a woman that I’ve helped to suffered a stroke. She was waterskiing and had a stroke while she was skiing. And so she became a client that I taught her how to play the brain speed ball virtually, until she could eventually come into the studio and, and play in person. And it’s probably the first time she’d left since the accident. So we got access to new possibilities. Right, right. Awesome. That’s what a beautiful moment. But then also, you know, I have a client, one of my favorite stories to tell is the his dad who raised his motorcycles. And we featured him on the website, because his story is so incredible that, you know, he was going 50 miles an hour on his on his bike on a track and lost control of his bike, went headfirst into a cement wall and broke 20 some bones, had a massive traumatic brain injury, and dramatically affected his quality of life and his family. And his wife called me just after it happened, because she knew of me and we’ve been colleagues for a while. And she’s like, this is what just happened like just minutes ago. I’m going down to see him. As soon as I can bring him into your space, I want you to see him. And I was like, Okay, I’m ready. And so by the time I saw him, he was about four days out of a wheelchair. So only four days walking on his own on Assistant, how about a walker?
Michael Hughes
How long post injury so he was get a perspective, you six,
Trent
I think six months post injury, gotta appreciate it, all right. But when he came in, he has a way of describing it that it was his drunk penguin walk. So he needed the wall to hold on to and you kind of walk side to side, like he would say a drunk penguin. That’s how he can manage his balance. He had something to hold on to and he had sort of like a side to side tilt. And so I played the Braintree ball with him now with him. I played for 10 minutes, because I was really trying to lay down some pathways and open up some possibilities because I was willing to see him for a short period like one session, what can we see? What can we have happen here? And after we were done, I was like, Okay, let’s just take a walk here and see what see what is see what’s happened. Because I promise you one of three things is gonna happen, it’s gonna get better, it’s gonna get worse, or it’s gonna stay the same, I promise. Right. So he goes, he goes, take his walk. And you wouldn’t even know that he had an injury. It was it still gives me goosebumps today. It was so profound the change in his walk. And of course, yeah, yeah, it was, it was amazing. But then you go right to like, Okay, how long is it gonna last? I mean, that’s, that’s the next question. Like, that’s a great result. How long is it going to last? And so that was actually when he got home and what his family asked him like, Oh, that’s great, and all Dan, but tomorrow, we’re gonna wake up and it’s gonna be the same. The next day, it was not the same. He had, he had kept every ability in his walk, and it never returned. It was it was remarkable. So eventually, you can go back to work once once he could be in front of a computer and think intensely for periods of time. You know, everything kind of had to heal and come together. But for him to gain the confidence to then go on his own. And he did a solo trip to national parks. I mean, incredible who does that, like not even fully recovered from a traumatic brain injury, not dementia, meant to mention 21 broken bones that they didn’t, they didn’t put back together, they just left kind of cricket because it was better for him to leave it that way. In terms of Oregon safety and things like that. So here goes by himself on a trip. It was just it’s just remarkable. It’s so inspiring to me.
Michael Hughes
So I’m going to be a, a was sort of what I’m looking for here. I’m going to be devil’s advocate, even though I don’t want to be a citizen that Hi yah. Yah. Ease, that’s lucky. What we loved interesting is like, no, no, there’s principle principles of why that happened. So not because I’m asking but because maybe someone else is asking, why did that happen? Why exactly drills, do what it did.
Trent
Yeah. So, you know, if you think about when somebody has a concussion, you know, when they test like, they test your eyes to detect whether or not you have a concussion. And when you have rapid movements in your eyes are fluttering all over the place, like get up, there’s a concussion. So you have a head injury, and your eyes are the tail of your eyes and the brain of the same thing. So it’s really it’s really simple. If you’re what you’re measuring for head injury, or your eyes, the way in to the head injury is through your eyes. And then we’re talking about you know, you know, I range of motion like smooth range of motion, we’re talking about quick, rapid eye movement, we’re talking about depth perception. So you have vergence, where the where the ball is coming closer and further away from the eyes. And we have your vestibular ocular reflex, where your eyes are turning equal opposite to your head. So those four movements that your eyes do are incorporated into that game. And because it’s the your eyes, it just, that’s the reason it’s really that simple. Now, you can go and you can go for the relay where it goes to the brainstem, and it goes to the brain and does this and does that and has an output. But the why is because the eyes have a profound impact on our abilities, perception equals action. And if you have poor perception, you’ll have poor action. So he had poor action. So we improved his perception, and the action improved.
Michael Hughes
Yeah, thank you. Yeah. I want for everyone to be able to be like, it’s just don’t argue this, that it’s just, you know, the as, as we say, and you said it much more personal is that the test is the exercise, the exercise is the test. If you want to test the brain by an actual plan on exercise, then why don’t you just rehearsing? And it makes sense. It just makes sense.
Trent
In the sense, listen, I didn’t invent the science, I just identify and make it a game so that you can do it, you can go and read the Harvard research, you can go and read all the articles that I’ve read, you can find all the books, but it’s putting it together for someone who’s not going to read those books, who’s not going to want to understand how it really works. You don’t have to think like game, you don’t even have to speak the language that I speak, I can still play this game with you. You know, you can have no language, one of one of my favorite clients that I worked with, who’s since passed, suffered from severe dementia. And he didn’t have language, he didn’t have words that were that made sense to you or I. But what it did for him, was help him with his mood. So when he would get frustrated and worked up and become belligerent, just because life was so hard for him in that moment, I would play with the brain speed ball with him. And he calmed down, he’d be laughing, have a good time, it would just shift his mood because he’d have to track with his eyes, he wouldn’t be able to do anything else. It’s it’s, it’s it’s all encompassing, it’s consuming in a positive way for your senses and brain. And it just creates that regulation. So it’s, it’s, you know, there’s just so many different applications, right? We know, so for your trainers that, that, you know, maybe maybe they maybe they don’t specialize in recovery and therapeutic. You don’t have to, you know, you want you want your athlete to run faster, I can measure that we can play game for five minutes and measure that your athletes running faster. And then watch them go, what do you just do? That’s a great, I know, right?
Michael Hughes
Well, it’s, you know, as we look into it more and more movement is the lack is the Ellicott lack movement is the missing picture to Ultimate Health, we have this amazing health care system, if we could argue this amazingness. But for the most part, we have amazing technology. We can save people from 21 broken bones and running a concrete wall. Right? They can survive where 50 years ago, 60 years ago, not the way not I mean, they have childbirth. At this day and age. You know, again, I we had six, it’s not doing very well, in that measure, but the grand scheme of things were much better than 100 year years ago. And what we haven’t really figured out yet in the grand medical system is movement. Yeah. And from the eyeballs, literally to the whole system. In multi dimensional space, right, just as you’re talking about, you’re talking about your pitch and roll just with the eyeballs, you know, quarterback side of side spin spin, you know, it’s to the finite of those little things right there to the grandiose motion of what we were focused on it all is that it’s I don’t want to call it the fountain of youth. But I really would like to, you know, it’s really close even from your dementia client, right? That was his fountain of youth that kept them sane kept him normalized when his body was so far gone, quote, unquote, you know, shut up, shut down that piece was he was able to control and move not only affected his physical, naturally affecting his mental, and then however you want to look at it affected his souls affected his inner self. So dig it, just dig it. Right, huh. Man, this is really, really cool. Hello, I have a few more questions. So I want to make sure I hit them off. Okay. Yeah, this is one I definitely haven’t hit on yet. You’re talking about a lot of other people. Yeah. You’ve talked about yourself a little bit a little bit, especially when you just got the news of your three year old self, which you had to go through but how is this as you know, yes. As practitioners, we help a lot of people. What about you What have you gotten from this? How has this changed your life, you bring in more of the backstory, but more from you as a person versus as a professional,
Trent
I will tell you that the thing that I feel the most is a really wonderful responsibility. That that’s what comes up over and over again, it’s like, you know, I, I’ve had some remarkable professionals in my training courses, really smart, really capable. And people that I would hire for myself. For years, you’re like, Man, I, I just wanted or thought of this. And it’s, it’s one thing to think of it, but it’s another thing to make it accessible. So you can do it without having to go through all of the, all of the research and all of the development and all of the, you know, process, but it feels like a responsibility because it is so innately as my life it is, it is what I’ve experienced in my personal life, in my professional life in teaching other professionals how to do it. And it’s, I’m the guy like, that’s, it’s my responsibility. And I feel like if I don’t share it, if I don’t make it accessible, that feels really selfish, that feels like, well, well, what good is it going to do? Like, yeah, it will help all of my clients and I’ll, I can keep my schedule full. But that’s not why I’m doing that’s not the end game here. It’s actually from the beginning, even before I had the ball. For me, it’s like, how many people can I affect that I don’t see personally, that’s where I have a lot of fun. Like, when I can affect hundreds and 1000s and hundreds of 1000s and millions of people that’s exciting, that I never meet, that’s really exciting. Because ultimately, you know, you with your clients on the ground, like that’s the relationship. And it’s, it’s, it’s a big responsibility to be that person who forms that relationship with your client, there’s a lot of trust, there’s a ton of brain work in building that trust. And so it feels like a responsibility to support you, and having more tools to reinforce that trust. And to open up new doors that haven’t been open for your clients you’ve seen for 1015 2025 years, that still keep coming, and you still keep giving them new things. So I have to like, you know, that’s like one of the one of the tests like are you doing this because you want to you like it you want to get paid for it? Or you have to like I have to do this. That’s just the way it is.
Michael Hughes
So. Have you met? Almost uh, have you met what what has been one of probably the biggest challenges that you’ve had to still wrestle with you know, maybe you haven’t overcome it yet. Certain case scenario that’s that’s that challenges you in the methods that you that you’re delivering, I really like to try to bring it home like those trainers who look up to those people who have accomplished something like we just like you, you’re you’ve accomplished something, the store a realness to it all, like, I’m still challenged, you’re still challenged? Do you have a story where you’d like? Yep, I’m still being challenged here. I like to bring it bring the reality to it all that we’re at, we’re not perfect. We’re always learning. I can tell you and we have the humility to understand that. I’m not done. yet. There’s still some Yeah.
Trent
Yeah, I think I think, you know, what challenges me the most are working with, with situations that there’s a lot of fear, that is overriding the situation. So because what I’ve what I’ve had to develop tools for myself as a professional is going, Okay, I see the solution, I know exactly what you need to do. But that’s, that’s not going to help you if I can’t first help you get through this fear piece. Because if you’re in a fear response, and you’re in fight or flight, whatever I’m saying to is like not going to stick like that is just not doesn’t make sense. I don’t believe it. I don’t how do you know? Like that, you know, all of that comes up. And so a lot of times you’re gonna have a diagnosis or just a situation without a diagnosis that has a lot of fear and unknown and mystery and we don’t know a lot about this situation, there’s a lot of mystery and unknown around it and so that the client has a lot of fear and so that fear is hard to overcome because it blocks everything blocks progress, it blocks you know, opening doors and the ball certainly helps with that. But that’s personally like one of my bigger challenges is the there’s a diagnosis that brings very heavy fear for the person and it’s not a particular diagnosis by the way, it’s just for that person. If if the fear if we’ve got more fear than anything else, then it takes a lot of work to get through that that fear piece.
Michael Hughes
And you have the option but you have the knowledge that knowledge at this point doesn’t it doesn’t matter yet. Right? you’re sprinting into another challenge very fast. I appreciate that. I think that’s, I think that’s something that a lot of trainers, at least coming up into something that I did is that we have this spirit of our own selves, that, that we’re not good enough that we haven’t figured out yet. This imposter syndrome kind of mindset. And what I really love about, at least my story, and significant years of story is we figured it out. You, you haven’t told me that you have a a doctorate in neuroscience? I don’t think you’ve mentioned that books. I don’t think, you know, maybe you put you figure it out that the knowledge is there is what you just started to do something with it, that is applied a lot about our jobs, it’s applying common sense that seems to be forgotten, just not focused on. So
Trent
I hope I do, I do see in a future like education is going to catch up to what we know now. Certainly, the the courses that I put together, and I work with professionals, provide those pieces for people. And there’s lots of research that we can point to in books who can point to, to give validation to the concepts and the ideas. But I’ve certainly looked into those degrees, the majority of the content in those degrees is not going to support my clients or the professionals that I help. And so right now, it would just be a degree to look. And like it validates what I’m saying. And so kudos, I might choose that at some point. But I’m really not looking for sort of like a hollow validation. I’ve lived it. I’ve 25 years experience of watching my clients. And I think the big thing is that I’m willing to hold space for the person coming in to see me, I’m willing to problem solve, and let them know that that’s what I’m doing. I don’t already have the answer. But I have the willingness to problem solve. And I will hold the space for you to try to find the solution. And that’s the game changer for clients like oh, you see me. So when you have that impostor syndrome, it’s like, let’s shift you into, Oh, your client sees you you see your client, and they realize that, that you see them. And that’s profound. You don’t have to have all the right answers and to begin with in fact it better if you don’t, because you’re gonna be limited by that. I agree. I agree. Better to be a problem solver and Liping. Yeah, 100 100
Michael Hughes
I honestly, I’m going to end it right there. It is better to be a problem solver than someone who just regurgitates knowledge? Yeah, yeah. How can people find you? How can people get in contact with you? How can people learn more about what you do?
Trent
Yeah. So you can go to fireupyourbrain.com. And on the website, there’s a section called Ask Trent and I really want to invite your listeners to engage with Ask Trent, what I do is I go live every month. And I bring the questions that I get from clients and professionals and people that have the ball and use this work, do this brain work? And I answered the questions live. And then we we build a library and you can we can share those videos with people. But if you go to fireupyourbrain.com , you can sign up to get notifications for when I’m going live and how to submit questions and and get some answers. And you don’t have to be there live to get the answers, of course, but you do have the ability to submit a question, which really matters because I want people to know that they’re not alone. So I do that because you’re not alone in your journey. And there’s somebody who’s already done it, who can help. And there’s an answer that can can be applied quicker than that not,
Michael Hughes
I dig it. And I want to encourage those listening in a courage myself, you do not have to be a brain specialist. To use the ball, it can be a tool in one of your exercises in your program doesn’t have to be the whole thing as we’d like to consider ourselves as we collect methodologies, we are specialists at specialties. And we have all kinds of stuff that we just toss into a probing because there’s so much that can be applied. And instead of using a medicine ball for one of our shows, maybe they’ll be your tool. So I’m looking forward to that. And always selling the why behind it. Because like you said, it is just the ball with characters on it. Right, why you’re using it. And the power behind it. Just as a mace is just a ball on the end of a of a pole. That was evil weapon at one point. So Trent, thank you very much for your time. Thanks for being I really enjoyed talking to you learning from you, and inspired me to continue to push and understand that even the smallest things seem to be actually are the most important in terms of how you process so that was huge for me. Thank you very much. And it’s my almost success to you
Trent
Thank you so much. It’s really been a pleasure. I really appreciate you having conversations very thoughtful. Thank you.
Michael Hughes
Awesome. All right. See you guys next time
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