Personal Trainer Certifications: What’s Missing from Education?
Michael Hughes
How many initials Do you have behind your name? If you’re a trainer to for a laundry list can even fit on your business card? What are those initials mean? What are those certifications represent to you to your clients? Does it fulfill all the things that you think that you can do? Or do you still find gaps in your education in your learning? Do you still lack a little bit of confidence in how to apply those letters behind your name? Are they limited to a tool? Or do they have a deep immersive background of the why, how and what? Well, today, I got two amazing coaches with me that are going to help unpack what we think the gaps are in the movement, traditional certification game as trainers as mood practitioners, I’m going to dive into what we would do looking back and what we’re excited about in the future, Saturday. Welcome to the Gymnazo podcast where you get to peek behind the curtains of what it takes to create and run a seven figure fitness facility that ranks in the top 5% of boutique fitness studios for revenue. But to be honest, that’s the least important thing about us. Founded by me, Michael Hughes, Gymnazo has created an ecosystem of services that blend performance with restoration techniques, and attracts top coaches to its facility hosted by its owners, Paden, and myself and our top coaches, this podcast shares our best practices on everything, from how to build a sustainable fitness business, to how to program for maximum results to how to build a hybrid training module that’s online and in person. We have marketing secrets, movement, innovation, and breaking down trends in the industry. If you’re a fitness professional, or fitness business owner, this is where you learn how to sharpen your skills and to see maximum results. Michael here, Jonathan, here, CJ here all movement specialist, as we would call ourselves with all different backgrounds of certification, paths, learning, and all different sorts of what brought us here, so I’m amped to dive into the gaps that the traditional certification world brings, and how I selfishly, I think we’ve solved a lot of them and have some pretty strong opinions about the learning education, post college, but at the world of fitness. So when I say that, what do you guys think about what, what brings up top of mind?
Goose
Well, I think about I mean, college diploma is the first thing I think about. So coming out of Cal Poly kinesiology degree focus on exercise science, did my senior project here, the translation from going from school into job, especially this job having such a well rounded approach on movement? I didn’t think that for me personally, and maybe that was on me the gap between classroom to actual execution and practice, there, just there wasn’t really a translation there. So it was more so being here being in the mix, I was able to find out more about what we were doing the approaches, the principles, all that good stuff, versus kind of looking at a book. And again, maybe that’s on me, maybe that was on whatever the set or whatever the class was, but that execution of being thrown into it seemed more so the route versus just reading the book, oh, this is what you do here. This is like the procedure here. This is what this tissue does. seeing it in person was a lot different. So kind of bridging that gap. I had to be thrown into it. mentorship, fell or internship during the whole thing. But my mind goes to diploma first,
Michael Hughes
which is essentially of the most expensive personal training certification out there. Which is a Bachelors of Science in Kinesiology. Oh, yeah. I’d say so. Right. So that would be your certification. Like I’m traditionally certified in ISA and International Sports Science Association. What about ucg?
CJ
When I, when I went to Polly Hunter College, my idea of what I needed to know, in terms of how to execute didn’t exist, I thought it was just, I would basically absorb everything I needed to know and do and then just start executing right off the bat. There is no, there was no doubt in my mind that I would have trouble implementing what I was learning. But I was entirely wrong, because I didn’t have an environment to implement what it was that I was learning. I took in a lot of information, you know, took the classes and train myself. But when it came to actually making money and understanding how to transform what I knew in terms of just an idea and abstraction and all this information in the books, passing tests and saying alright, I kind of know how the body works. I felt that there was a lot of stuff missing, like, how do I start? Do I just jump into another gym and and get hired by them and they’re gonna teach me do I open up a gym and just start at Ground Zero, like there’s there was no real, I didn’t really think about any of these things until I was thrown into the scenario to actually implement and work with real people. So I felt unprepared with what I got from college, even though I had my degree and felt like I knew my shit. I really didn’t know how to communicate what I knew. But, you know, I dabbled, I still got clients and work with people to kind of like one on one while I was in school and had some previous coaching experience, but in terms of implementation and feeling like I was on a good stride to continue to grow and be in my own, be on my own, there was just a lot missing.
Michael Hughes
I think it’s been interesting because experience truly is, in my mind, the differentiating factor that it’s really hard to get from a classroom experience really hard to get from a textbook, it is that a sense of a apprenticeship apprenticeship is meaning like you’re actually working in the field. And I’m really curious to see how many certifications out there go to that level of ACC saying we’re gonna do the best we possibly can to actually work with you move with you progress with you. And as I did a lot of research on the, on the kind of more traditional approaches, most of them have textbooks. And I’m sorry to say it, but it takes a many months, if not years to make a textbook. So therefore, whatever you send to that publisher that is now outdated, the moment it actually gets into a box to someone’s house. And everybody kind of that really, I mean, obviously anatomy doesn’t really change. Physiology doesn’t really change. But how you associate it really changes a lot. I think we’re in the fastest growing technology. The fastest, super fast, like computer technology is going fast. VR is going fast. But AI is going fast. But the human body understanding, I run a whirlwind of change, where I think certifications are popping up everywhere. And putting a lot of stress on these main state principal, she’s mainstay kind of traditional ways of thinking like, here’s the human body, here’s the hamstring, here’s how to lose weight. Here’s how to lift a dumbbell. Here’s how to not look down a woman’s shirt. You know, it’s like all these different things that these certifications are talking about ethics and data. And I met, I just feel like there’s a massive undertone of like, why, how and what do I do when What you say doesn’t work. And that’s why I really think this is this whole stream of like, modification. specialties are out there corrective forms, and then like how to use a TRX, how to use a kettlebell how to use an arm T rope, which I really want you to talk about how to use movement screens, everyone’s trying to come in and kind of place a claim. And I’m curious, what is the biggest deciding factor that makes something worthwhile? Like, why would I pick a certification based upon all that information?
CJ
If a certification process doesn’t teach you or give you opportunities to critically think about what you’re learning, and just telling you how to do something and what to do. And it tells you why and doesn’t ask you questions or provide opportunities to get you to, to ask like, Well, how would I use this? When would I use this for who would I use this. It’s tough when you don’t have clientele or actual environment to implement it. But also, if there’s not any post scenarios, like how to handle different situations, it’s great that you could be you could know everything about the human body. But if you don’t know how to apply it to a specific scenario, let’s say somebody has got to a knee injury. And the book says to do this, here’s the protocol. But then when you go to do it, the person it’s not working, either it’s the user error, like you’re doing something not correct or more. So you’re not looking deeper into the issue and the source of what’s going on at the individual. You’re just applying a a a protocol towards a something that isn’t a person it’s just an injury or some kind of dysfunction, and not taking into account the other whole backstory of how this person got injured or how this person got to be where they are right now. I think was was hugely missing is that critical thinking piece everybody’s I shouldn’t say everybody but most certifications there’s a test at the end of that certification that allows you to be certified and gives you the confidence to be able to teach and coach what it is that you learn to that certification. But doesn’t kind of go on the other side of this of well what if this what if this like the it depends scenario because it really is about context. It’s about who you’re working with, and What is in this communication? What is in this, this specific situation that you can use to help this individual get better, get stronger, get faster. That’s not anything what The Book says it’s about the relationship that’s being developed and treating the person and working with the person as a human being not as a dysfunction, not as an injury, not as a plateau, but as the person that they are and really understanding. There’s a, as much as there’s a biological side to all this. And that’s what all the studies are, are showing like, Okay, this exercise did this with this amount of reps and this prescription will What about the other side of it, like interacting with physics and our environment? Like different forces? And what about the behavioral side of it? What is this person being inhibited by their emotions, or by something that happened in their past? Or maybe they’re writing a specific narrative for their current training or current lifestyle that is inhibiting them from getting to that next stage? And I don’t think other certifications address that deep enough, thorough enough?
Goose
Well, especially with like the behavioral side of things, because I think that’s such a powerful driver, where you’re wondering, like, oh, like, why is somebody in here? Versus Oh, they’re here to work out. But they know, like, what’s their real reason? Is it to hold their grandkid? Is it to go on hikes more? Is it to play more tennis? So under his understanding the behavioral side of it, and like what is actually driving the person is such a huge component to their success. And I think there’s that trade off of like, what school was certain certifications, that kind of test or assessment at the end? Was it a matter of just memorizing stuff and then spewing that back out to get the cert to get the in air quotes credibility next year name? Or are they providing that opportunity to be like, Okay, well, if this does happen, because there’s a million different scenarios for any given one, like, how can I adapt? How can I troubleshoot? How can I adjust to better create a successful spot for this client? Versus Oh, this is the protocol. This is the procedure. Okay, so what if it’s X, Y, and Z? Like, what if you have to go a different route? How can I ask these questions? How can I implement How can I execute? And I feel like a lot of it, at least for me, it became like, memorize this. regurgitate that, whereas once you get into some of these other certifications that do a little bit better job addressing all three kind of main drivers, you get a better understanding of the client how to be successful there. It’s more troubleshooting. Yeah.
Michael Hughes
Yeah. I like what you said about the passing tests, like some doing all the research on all these major ones, like, oh, we have 100 questions, we have 200 questions, you can do it online, you gotta go this testing center. And automatically, the moment you ask a fill in the blank, multiple choice, true false, is the moment your test is incomplete. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that. It’s just incomplete. There has to be more than that. And when in an industry that is, I don’t know. It’s not high. It’s not regulated at all. There’s no standard those license, there’s a bar to test. There’s just like, popularity contests? Who has the best certification? Who’s doing the coolest things? Where knowledge? But the one thing that is kind of the standard out there is results? And that’s interesting, because in the fitness world, it could be how you look how chiseled Your abs are a that’s a result without a question. How heavy you can lift, strong man, that’s a that’s a result. And it really depends, I think, on where that trainer, that client, that kind of sector wants to push it. Because I can argue all day long, like, we’re focusing on the wrong things. And I’m right, but then other people say, Well, you guys just focus on movement and painfree. It’s like, you’re just a bunch of physical therapist wannabes. And I’d be like, well, that’s the most, you know, we all have our own little like, well, that’s the most important thing, because you can’t do weightlifting better if you can’t do that. And but regardless, we’re all just here to help people. And we just want to learn something that we don’t know. And it’s kind of a bunch of bunch of trainers out there who essentially just want to know more. And just picking and choosing best, the best Google, you know, feedback sheet, like, Oh, this is the top ranked one. Here’s the cheapest and how you learn. But it comes down to why you think you just said, physics. The human body does not get results without this word called force. It’s the it’s the language of the cell. Because force, you can’t get bigger muscles. You can’t change a tissue, you can’t even mental right force the ability to have a disciplinary action. So I love I want to know like, is there any certification out there anybody who’s listening this? Who knows a certification that talks about physics, like true understanding of what actually happens unarguable movement dynamics.
CJ
I got to the point of thought to me because I think a lot of certifications do address physics, but they address it only in an elementary way to understand a concept of how lever arms work or how gravity like how there’s forces of a pulley system and how the free weights are different than a smith machine and how, you know, there’s there’s a lot of talk about physics. So I think reframing this and a sense of, Well, how does it apply to what I want to do in life. And I think we bias functional movement. I think everybody does functional training is just we all focus on different functions. Some people focus on lifestyle functions, some work, working on sport functions, sport specific, in an actual athletic event, some focus purely on restorative or rehabilitation work. And there’s there’s different specialties along the lines of that. So we can all argue our side of these things about how physics is applied to our function. But we need to agree on something that we have certain abilities as humans, that how we interact with gravity, ground reaction force, mass momentum, and a squat is different than a lunge is different than a push or a pole. And we can combine a lot of these things. And it’s not necessarily just being able to explain what’s happening, it’s being able to articulate what you’re experiencing in your own body in reference to the activity that you’re doing. So if you’re doing a lunge, and you’re trying to keep a strict THRASS, stick, neutral spine, and you’re trying to keep your knee bent and your head on top of your hips on top of your knee. And then you look at somebody else doing a lunge differently, who their leg the back leg is straight, and the pressure is in both feet evenly. And we’re adding some kind of rotation and lean like a type one spine motion, and it looks more dangerous, because it’s more trioplan loading. Both are interacting with the forces of nature. But the experience internally is different. And the conversation being had internally is different. And based on on your feedback and cueing as a coach, you might be limiting the success of your athletes to fully embrace that movement or that training session and to really understand more about their body and how they’re interacting with their environment by saying that it needs to be done a certain way, where we might ask, Hey, how does that feel when you do it that way we x, we show a lunge, but then somebody may do it differently. And we don’t say don’t do it, you’re doing it wrong, unless we might be trying to focus specifically on a foot position, force through the ground at a certain point in your foot. And a certain position of your hips, you know, in flexion, or extension, or in some kind of frontal plane or transverse plane position, what we’re really trying to do is seeing if see, if our athlete can express through words, what they’re experiencing, if there is a dysfunction, or pain, can we just modify how they’re doing that activity to be more successful. Rather than saying, you have to do it one way, you have to do your lunge this way, because in life, you’re probably gonna lunge many different ways to your entire life. And there’s probably never one lunge, that’s exactly the same. I mean, to a very microscopic level, when you step forward, you’re never really stepping the same exact distance, at the same exact time, the same exact speed. So instead of trying to put this into a protocol, this is how to do a lunge. One way we can use different ways of lunging, to enhance our interaction with, with our environment with this with this space.
Michael Hughes
So it’s the biggest takeaway I’m getting out of all this is that we have to learn how to process our own thinking. And we have to be able to say like, Okay, where’s the spectrum of the whole thing? Like, if you give me an answer, great, but where does that fit on this spectrum line? And how can I have the control? ability, the confidence to say yes, but here we go, or yes, but here we go. And from the basic traditional certification standpoint, I get their teaching people who know very little, and the just getting them going anatomy, physiology, programming templates, and understanding how to even run a session that you should do a warm up, you should do a cooldown. Well, what should you do? Well, gosh, we’re not gonna talk about that, because it’s options are endless. But it’s not leaving it there. You know, as I think it’s that concept, like, Oh, you are now certified Psych. Which is good. You know, the certification just really means you have a stamp of approval from some thinking thought process, great. But it’s that push is that is that knowledge, or I really want to see the industry get to a point where like, everyone’s in this point, like, Man, I don’t even aren’t even close to being done. Like there’s so much more. And that’s like, my internal heartbeat is like, show me something else. Give me another certification. Give me another methodology. Give me another course of how can we rewrite that?
CJ
I think we need to start realizing that we don’t know what we don’t know and to really understand what that statement means and to fully believe it. I mean, when we start getting opened up to more certification processes, we start to see similarities. We also start to see discrepancies like one certification says this But another certification says This. Now we’ve got to do critical thinking on ourselves to either say, Oh, this certification stupid is wrong, or we can look at it go, Okay, how is this certification, putting this into a certain context that I might understand to be a bit different, and understand that it is a lot about context. But it’s the context of your interaction with your clientele. It’s the context of where you’re at in your life as a trainer, I mean, somebody could be training for 30 years and have a lot of knowledge and a lot of wisdom and work with a lot of people but maybe doing the same things over and over and over again, and they’re not retaining a lot of people are the maybe they’re not finding the success that they could be finding, if they just branch out and have. I don’t want to fall into like the growth mindset or growth mindset or a fixed mindset, it’s more so just continuing to be a critical thinker and realizing, there’s always more to know, and we’re never going to know it all. If you think you know, at all. And you think you’re a master. I mean, a master is really just you’re being you’re continuing to be a student, you’re continuing to teach and learn and teach and learn. And you’re learning from those interactions. And from the success and the failures that you’ve had as a coach. But to kind of put yourself into a corner or a hole or or one certification or one type of movement method and say, you know, it all is just a blind statement. You’re you’re being naive. But I think we all deep down know that the more we learn, the less we know, because we realize there are things that we didn’t know, before that we know now. That mean, that means there must be more out there.
Michael Hughes
So what do you say about the certification junkies? Unless you want to go somewhere else? Yeah,
Goose
I’m actually glad you said that, because that’s kind of the route I was gonna go next anyway. It seems like in like, the coolest thing that drew me here was the curiosity to explore those certifications and like to test the waters of other spots. Because I see Joe is saying you’re gonna see similarities, you’re gonna see the the discrepancies. But each one in some way, shape or form offers like a piece of that big puzzle. And I think like here, we do such a good job of like, oh, there’s a little piece from like this cert, oh, there’s a little piece from like, this method. So I get why people like cert cert Chase and air quotes, like someone, someone called us a cert chaser not too long ago, but not the point. They just offer up a piece. And the more you’re on that kind of mindset of this has something to offer, what can I gain from here? And then how can I relay that to a client, because that’s the other part about working here is we’re so good at relaying and asking those questions of like, Oh, what do you notice? Like, How’d that feel? Did you change anything on that one, because now we’re instilling the client with that power of oh, now I’m building my own awareness as we’re learning from the client at the same time. So you get that cool kind of two way street of okay. You just told me something that I had no idea was going on, or you just tried something on your own that I would have never thought of, but thank you for relaying that. Now we can build from here. So I think everything has a piece to offer, especially that little like connection, like you were saying with that client, that awareness building starts with awareness.
Michael Hughes
Yeah. And also the awareness of a coach that you shouldn’t have a certification define you, or limit you. Like, oh, now I am up, I’m just use a kettlebell certified, you know, from that standpoint, like, Alright, now I know how to use a kettlebell. And if you are using credible in a way that I wasn’t taught my certification, like that’s, I think, a major trap and gap, in a sense, even from a knowledge base one, like, Kashmir ice didn’t talk about, you know, knee over the toe, they said, you should probably keep it there. So therefore, you must be wrong. And I think that is the gap of the gaps. I don’t know, like I’m putting a flag right right now saying that is the gap being limited? Because you learn something? You may want to go on a whole different tangent.
CJ
No, that’s it’s huge. Who’s doing the limiting? You know, you the certification doesn’t do the limiting by definition, the certification is a limitation. But it allows you to fill that space. Let’s imagine like a certification is a sandbox. And now you have all this information, you fill that sandbox with sand. Now you notice information, and you can deep dive and help people out with what you know. But you either get stuck in that sandbox, realizing this is hey, this is the sandbox I’ve been waiting for. And this is great. But at some point, you’re gonna look around and go like that person’s got a bigger sandbox, or like, Damn, that sandbox goes out into a whole playground and now you start realizing shit, I’ve put myself into a corner into my own box. It’s the walls have been built up. And now I’ve got my own dogma around what I think I know. And I’ve been portraying myself as that. It’s tough to let go of that identity. It’s your ego and we all have an ego but we tend to succumb to what our ego tells us as who we are, versus realizing that it’s just a part of what allows us to successfully communicate with each other, and everybody’s got their own their own ideas and beliefs. and understandings of, let’s just keep it into training and how we train people and how people should be trained and what should be talked about and what cues should be given. But in all honesty, there’s there’s so much more to invite into your practice. And I think that’s what where people can fall into just chasing certification after certification, because there’s a high when you finish that cert, you’re like, I know this stuff. And then you get addicted to that identity of being a certified. And then you just get your next certification. Next certification. Now it might be learning that’s driving this chase. And that’s great. But if there’s no time to integrate, and fully involve yourself, and immerse yourself in what that certification has taught you, you’ve never fully grasped what why that certification was created in the first place. Think about those people who created the certifications, the organizations that created the certifications, what went into that? Not the certification, it was a lot of learning, trial and error, a lot of studies, a lot of conversations and then put into a box to systematize what they learned in this chaotic world of all this information. So it’s been systematized and now dosed for you to take. And now you’ve taken that dose and you’ve gotten that information that you needed, and the education needed that then you start implementing with your clients. Or you don’t, because the clients aren’t asking for that part, you know, if they, you got credible certified and nobody really wants you as a kettlebell, where you’re at, well, that’s me ruff. Because you’re gonna want to you just trust I’ve been guilty that I love like, Oh, if I find a tool that I love, I want other people to fall in love with it, too. And I think that’s what we need to realize is what our certification is running our mindset and our thinking process versus enhancing our ability to critically think, and everybody everything that’s gone into creating the certifications is what’s more important than the certification itself. Because now it’s something that can be systematized and, and understood at a certain level. But I guarantee every certification out there those who have been involved in creating it know, there’s better ways to get that information. And or expand yourself beyond that box. I think that’s why so many people have different certifications or multiple certifications so that they can now use this information and critically think for what they need. But what’s missing is that implementation, that integration, that actual transformation of saying I don’t, I didn’t know this, now, I do know this, I felt something, I experienced it, I can talk about it, I feel competent with it. Now, how can I use this to make money and build a business or continue to help serving our clientele. And there’s nothing wrong with chasing certifications, but you got to give yourself the time to use what you learned.
Michael Hughes
Yeah, I like that what you said and we go to different points is, you know, certifications can either just be information, education, that you teaches you something that you know, and then or transformation makes you do something differently. And I think most of them fall into the information and education. And it takes that personal touch, whether it be virtual coaching, whether it be you come to a spot and actually do a weekend movement class, whatever the case is, but that has to be the transformation because we are we are kinesthetic learners. I mean, that’s how we’re teaching we’re teaching through kinesthetics. Yeah, audio visual that ended up but we’re movement practitioners. So if we don’t do that, then what’s going on, you know, we don’t have to do it in person. But you have to at least require some sort of movement, in my mind, to make it to make it happen. I don’t know. That’s kind of my whole piece. And then, secondarily, I love the sandbox analogy. Because what I believe the MDMC course does, or at least aren’t in our education through AFS, it teaches us to build a sandbox. And then to remodel the sandbox. And then maybe connect other sandboxes and know why we connected it, and how certain pieces connect, and how to make adapters to other pieces that don’t connect. Like to me, I just wanted this whole, like Lego set, like, what piece do I get out of here to make that piece go to there as like, well, it doesn’t fit perfectly. But here’s where it does and be confident in that so that I again, hence the conversation, and why the multi dimensional movement coach is referenced as the multi dimensional, not directional, but dimensional movement coaches that we have to be able to be architects and builders. And at the same time, like those people who say like, oh, you know, I don’t, I’m kind of an inspector now. I don’t think you did that just the way that should have been done for this application. So anyway, that’s my that’s my take on it.
CJ
There’s a when I went through grad students fellowship program. It opened my eyes to what transformation means because I was experiencing it in real time. and was absolutely flustered and out of my mind. And sometimes like just like, wow, I don’t know a damn thing. And other times like, I know exactly what it is. And I just remember going through that 40 weeks. And every couple of weeks, we, you know, talk about the foot, we talk about the knee that we talked about the hip, we talked about the spine, talking about the shoulder. And in those two weeks, when you learned about the foot, everybody had foot stuff that I was working with, that’s when they worked on the knee, everybody had knee stuff, even new stuff, we’re working on your knees. Alright, you got some of your shoulder, I’ll tell you what we’re on your hips. But here’s the thing, it worked. Because everybody’s got feet. Everybody’s got ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, and everything’s connected to the hip bone, and down to the foot bone. And going through that and actually going and implementing that what I was learning in real time, was super helpful, because though I may be focusing on one specific part of the human body, it created change in the person’s movement, change in the person’s attitude, change in how the individual would talk to me because I felt confident in talking about that part of their body. And a lot of times it would bring up questions, conversations, insights from past, past history of injuries and discomforts that they just realized, because we were working on their feet when they had a shoulder issue. And just in that conversation about talking about their feet, we learned about what was causing their shoulder pain, and we kind of worked our way up the chain. And there was Bruce Lee’s like four, four rules for when you take up information is like research your own experience, absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own. And that’s what that transformation process was like, it was like, oh, there’s things that I can use. And then I’m researching based on actually working with real people, not potentials, not hypotheticals, it was like this is a real person paying me for my time to help them out, I have to come up with something and I’m gonna use what I know to help them get better. And there’s probably other people that would have done it faster. But I still am working with most of those clients in the long term, like multiple years on a different thing. So they come back, when they got some kind of discomfort versus going directly to a chiropractor, or a physical therapist, which I see as more valuable because they’re coming to me to learn more about their body and their movement, based off of saying, Hey, can you just adjust me and feel because I want to feel better. Because that doesn’t necessarily last a long time. It’s something that is kind of like just providing a relief for a symptom, versus getting down to the root cause of it. And I think through applying what we’ve learned in our sandbox, and then building a new part of our sandbox, we realize what’s working, what’s not working for different individuals. But we have to go through that, that learning process ourselves, and almost create our own certification for ourselves, in the sense of moving feeling yet your personal practice, you’re communicating to somebody else about their practice and their movement. And now you’re dripping education along the way, because they may not be a movement practitioner, but they practice themselves moving, they’re human, and move. So there’s a there’s an open, open opportunity there for you to be a guide as a coach, as opposed to just somebody telling me the difference between a trainer and a coach, a trainer tells a coach listens. I like that.
Goose
What am I gonna do said with like, the transformational option or the transformation like process of going through the fellowship, because like you’re saying, Oh, you’re working on the foot, like all of a sudden, every has foot stuff. And just understanding those connections, like when you said, the sandbox, it made me think, Oh, you got your little sandbox going heads in the sand, like you’re working on yourself, like, this is what I know. And going through that transformation is almost like looking up and you’re at the beach, like the entire time. Like whoa, like there’s sand, like there’s so many options, there’s so many different ways I could go about doing this. So having that understanding of everything’s connected, I could try this, that or the other thing. And then you guys working here providing that environment of I’m allowed to try just about any, like strategy that I would like to to solve any given problem as long as I can tell you why I’m doing something. As long as I have a kind of a why like this is this is why I’m doing this, this is what I’m thinking this may work this may not work at all, but there’s a why to it, you allow us to dive deeper into our research dive deeper into these different strategies just by providing that opportunity and that trust that mutual trust is such a big part of the implementation trying new stuff. Ropes come in Masons come in I want to try this seems like it’s gonna work why because this this this tried out
Michael Hughes
who and like, to me I think from the certification process is like once you get the certification, you get this new tool, right, whether it be mental whether actually physical, right, in a sense, an actual piece of equipment. And what I like about continued to Learn is that once you get a new certification, hopefully that’s above and beyond a stepping stone of thought process higher. You start to kind of realize how crappy your tools are. Your current tools are and what I really don’t even hope I know what you know AFS based thinking multi dimensional movement coach thinking fellowship of ever thinking is, is that you start to realize that the tools you used, like, oh, wow, to use that 20 more, I guess that’s a better one. And I’m gonna go, I’m gonna go specific. When I first started training, the benchpress was the tool of all tools. Like do you gotta do bench press? You gotta get who doesn’t want their pecs, arms, shoulders looking good. Every man woman child needs to do something like that. If you don’t do bench press, we’re gonna do push ups. We’re gonna do crunches, no problem. You know, that’s just, that’s muscle mirrors, you know, mirror muscle, excuse me, like you got to see those you feel good about them. And now look at the drill that technique and like, man, like that’s just like that’s using a screwdriver. When I got this power drill that has Bluetooth technology and AI implementation and adaptable screw heads, like, why would you use that? Not saying it’s a bad tool? But it’s almost like it’s in my like, vintage closet of tools. You know, it’s like, God, let’s just let’s go have some fun today. I don’t know, to me, I just kind of my whole process, like, what is your certification giving you? Is it going to give you a tool that enhances? Or is it going to give you a tool that kind of goes a little bit more backwards? Or neither? Or is it a lateral play just a deeper? To me, that’s kind of my that’s what I that’s what I pulled off. He’s like, Oh, man, that’s right.
CJ
I love benchpress. Michael. I hate to think about it differently now. And I think that’s a that’s a great way to put it because tools aren’t just a piece of equipment. It’s it’s a technique. That’s what tools are techniques. And I think that’s where certifications, we need to realize when we sign up for a certification, are we going for the principles? Are we going for the strategies? Or are we going for the technique, because I think every certification has all three of those. But some reveal the principles, quite literally, and others, you have to have the vision to understand what the technique is actually gifting you with in terms of information. And when I say listening, as a coach, you’re not just hearing people talk, you’re listening to how a body is moving in space. And by listening, you’re listening with your eyes, you’re listening with your ears, you’re listening with this overall sensation of what you know. And does this feel right? Or does this feel wrong, you realize there is no right or wrong, it’s just I need to give this again, more context, I need to have a more of a purpose with this or completely scratch the purpose and just play, we can fall into a trap as coaches just providing purpose and intention and training. And never give our client the opportunity to learn themselves. Think about you being a kid and just growing up. And if somebody told you don’t do this, don’t do that. Stop doing this, do this instead, how much that would limit your growth and creativity as a child, and we’re still grown children. Like I said, college is more of a kindergarten for adults. Like we need to understand there’s so much more growth to be had and experience to be shared. But we have to have this, this play between intent and purpose lessness. And being able to observe yourself in those states, because we can get so caught up in our certifications and what it’s telling us about how to do something and why to do something and and how it’s working. But how we learn and how we evolve as human beings is by playing and discovering new stuff accidentally. And if we’re only doing things purposefully, hopefully there’s an accident that happens and you hurt yourself doing the thing that you thought was never going to hurt you. Because now you have something to blow your mind going shit that that wasn’t the softball, or you thought it was the foot and all you learned about was that you’re a foot specialist and everything’s the foot but you’re like, if I would have known more about the hip, I would have solved this much more efficiently or effectively and had a better conversation with this individual. And I think that’s that’s what we need to we need to realize, as coaches, as therapists, as trainers, as athletes, that we have to have a form of play and discovery, through our techniques through our strategies and through the principles and to be able to observe what’s going on internally. Jonathan said it great. He asks, In sessions, you know, what did you notice? How did that feel? And if something like is hurting them, he asked how did you do it differently? Did you adjust versus giving them the adjustment, giving them the cue that maybe they would have come to terms with and understood themselves? Have they been given three more minutes? Maybe today they don’t have to do their five exercises, three sets of 12 reps, maybe they spend a little bit more time on that third exercise, because that’s when that’s given them a little bit of trouble and pain when they just need to realize how to play with gravity a little differently, not fight it, but listen to it, feel that extra bit of burn, listen to your breath, notice the tension of your position, versus just getting the task done, we get so caught up in just getting a task done, our body will do it, our brain will do it. But there’s going to be a point where we get shoved into a corner by the shadows of what’s also out there, which is all the other potentials, we just start to tap into that play side.
Goose
When that’s why I like when we do go to correct somebody. So say people get so focused on form and stuff. If you show a certain movement, and it looks a little bit off, we always say Oh, like that, that’s great. But we’re going to try this. It’s never like, Hey, you can’t do that. Like you were saying earlier, I can’t remember who told me I want to say it was I want to say was Jess said Don’t say like what you can’t do or you can’t. I’m trying not to do it right now. allow them the opportunity of all the stuff that they can do versus limited by saying that they can’t do something. So you can do this. This is what we’re going after. That’s totally fine. That’s awesome. different result. It’s not a oh, you can’t do this. It’s allowing them, Hey, do this, does that feel good? Perfect. Keep doing that. Let them explore, let them play, let them mess up a little bit. And maybe it goes a little bit off what the program is. But the benefit of them feeling successful, or them feeling a certain new feeling potentially the the tension to the tissue is exponentially higher than Hey, you can’t do that. Let’s go this route versus Oh, no, like, try that. That’s awesome. I was going to do that. But yeah, keep doing that. And I liked that.
Michael Hughes
As I as I did a lot of research into this podcast, and you know, the techniques were strong. I read all the websites, I went until the dove as deep as I possibly could. And looking into it’s like, here’s what to do, here’s what we here’s what what, what, even even in the categories, this is this is this is why it’s important. It was still just what
CJ
I was like, why is it what
Michael Hughes
kind of marketing me you know, the why when you’re really saying that? And the way we look at what’s his techniques, right? It’s the exercise. The how you do something, you know, as we go into is the strategy and that’s endless. And the strategies, we’re talking about, like a weight loss certification, or we’re talking about a body composition or body building. He’s like, here’s what to do, you got to do in football training, our strength training, it was literally follow this exercise rep count set. And I got stronger, no questions. You know, I earned that 1000 pound club shirt. But it did work. But no one was talking about how I was moving my body. The strategies on how I’m gripping that bar, the strategy of how I’m creating tension through my shoulders, it was just moved the bar from here to here. And I get it it was high school football, but from the Learn certifications from this thought process and the How to the strategy behind it. You know when to eat, how to eat for your body type for your mindset type, forget about your body type, your blood type, your gut type, your mindset type. And then just to go one level, even deeper, is to the overall the truth, the why you actually do it. And CG you mentioned, it’s like if you don’t understand ground reaction force mass amount, if you don’t understand the physics applied, if you don’t understand the behavioral science apply, if you don’t understand the biology applied. Ai, you’re going to search for certifications to give you the answers. And they’re never going to solve it for you. Because you have to go all the way down deep into those things. And again, I’m just gonna say it. That’s why I love the MDMC program is because it goes there it starts there. And if you don’t start that again, it’s like why I don’t I don’t want to give you sushi. I want to teach you how to farm the fish and shatter grow the rice, I want to teach you how to do all the things which go from the base because being a solid trainer, movement practitioner is about guiding it’s not about being the dude up on up on the hill, you’re in the trenches, you can access the guy up on the hill, but you’re you’re you’re working with them. So they can get up up up up up on the hill. Like so they can be that ultimate, you know, ideal person who says I know what to do. But we always have job security always because it’s not, it’s there’s no end. There’s no like, oh, I don’t need you anymore. They might not need you for that task anymore. But that’s when you give them a high five and say get out of here. Now go talk positively about my my business which they will do. You know, in a sense if you’re looking like I don’t want to lose my client, I always need to kind of hide hide hide. Purse, you’re not giving them one of our sweet 16 strategies of how to be amazing coach. You got to give them everything that you cannot begin I don’t want to say that but you got to give them as much as possible so they can unleash their own selves. And don’t let a certification limit you from understanding the what, to the how, excuse me, the why to the How to the want.
CJ
Yeah, and I, you know, there’s there’s no like one certification that’s going to solve everything. However, there are a few select certifications out there that I’m biased towards, because I’ve gone through them. And it’s, I haven’t only seen myself transform and change how my eyes work. In a sense, I’ve been gifted like movement glasses that are still getting better. And also a tool belt that, you know, I’m not a contractor, but I work on people’s bodies, and we build them up. And it’s not ourselves doing it, it’s teaching our athletes how to use the tools that are on the tool belt, and saying, here’s, here’s your hammer, here’s your screwdriver, those are, those are going to be necessary. But also, here’s a jackhammer, and drill bit, you know, like a full power, power screwdriver,
Michael Hughes
and impact driver.
CJ
So you’ve got different levels of these things, but they’re also going to be used, and I think, realizing what you’ve gained from specific certifications is important and realizing, wow, who were you? And how were you before that as a coach? And now that you’ve completed this? How has it changed? Or how has it influenced how you coach, and it’s very tough to do it in the moment. But if you start to journal right, or look back on your sessions, pre certification, and then look, now those sessions, post certification of whatever it is, did you implement what you learned at all? Or is it just still inside of you, because if you haven’t put it down on paper, or helped people realize what you’ve realized, what you’ve gained from this certification is going, you’re gonna lose what you’ve gained. You know, there’s, there’s a few that have taught me a lot of how to see more principles, and not to say, here’s the technique what to do. But here’s the principles, and here’s some techniques to observe the principle and the strategy. And now go do stuff on your own, using these principles and these techniques, but format to what you do and where you are, I love certifications like that, because it doesn’t make me feel bad about changing what I’ve learned in that certification. And I’m gonna say specifically, learning from from Weck method, like methods, qualification course, you know, there’s still so much more to be learned. But in that course, I, I felt something that I hadn’t felt in my body before. And I was able to articulate what it was that I experienced, and it was getting stronger, and I was getting faster, I was feeling more efficient. And I could say those things. But if you’ve never experienced it physically, they’re just words. But when I hear somebody say that, I’m like, show me what it is that you did, because I want to feel that I want to embody what it is that I’ve learned and embodiment is feeling. But it’s also putting form to something abstract, which is a feeling, try to put form to a feeling feeling is an energy, it’s a, it’s a sensation, it’s a vibration, it’s a heat, it’s pressure, it’s whatever else and it’s more of a proprioceptive awareness, that if you’re able to tune into those things, now you can attempt to tune into those intentions or those principles in other exercises. So when I say like a benchpress now is no longer just a benchpress I create a whole course on certification benchpress, which is all the millions with millions of ways to modify a benchpress and may not even take anything but a barbell on your body, and how I asked you to put your hands or how I asked you to pull the bar apart or push it together, not just to flex a muscle into squeezing a brace. But to actually produce a sensation through a chain in your body. That’s not just pecs and biceps and triceps and shoulders everything working but now you feel your feet when you’re doing a bench press. Now you feel your right oblique when you’re doing a bench press. Now don’t use your right oblique use your left side you know there’s there’s ways to form that depending on what who you’re working with, and what they’re there for. But we’ve got we’ve got to get to a point where there’s integration application of those principles of those visions, and you know what methods Senate grant Institute’s done it, I think we’ve done a great job of doing it with with our action items in our course, like it’s not just go learn all right, here’s your certifications like you got to turn shit in, you got to, you got to play your part in this together, you’re, we’re not just selling you something, we want you to help us get better to serve other people even more so on a deeper and more thorough level. And it’s through seeing and embodying those principles that you’ve learned and now creating from it, not just using the techniques that you’ve learned, but creating your own techniques. Well, maybe those techniques already exist out there. And then you go try them and now you implement them in your practice. It’s easy, like, ah, someone else has already come up with that. I’m gonna come up with something different. Try to do what they just did, and see what your experience was like and now communicate that experience and can you dive and drill deeper into that experience. That’s what makes you a great coach.
Goose
Yeah, talking about like the bench press, like the million different ways you can Oh, you’re using like one oblique, like, let’s use the other one. One course, that’s not necessarily a certification, I don’t believe, but was a really like critical point in my understanding was a chi torque it’s called Chi torque. And it’s just a lot of navigating tension to the body and it forces you. So they’re quick little videos, they show you some moves, we’re compressing in some tissue, you’re lengthening and others forcing blood flow into certain areas, and you’re navigating this tension through your body. So after you’re through with however many videos, it is not not too many, you have a better understanding of how your body’s moving. And you’ve had these sensations you’ve had these feelings in these tissues may have never experienced before. And now that you have your own understanding of these, you have a better, you’re better able to communicate that with a client, either through similar kind of, hey, let’s angle your body this way, let’s really try to contract the lat right here as you’re expanding on this side. But just developing that own personal awareness of how things can shift, the motion could look the exact same a pull up could look the exact same on the outside, but I could be firing like lower lat versus upper lat you go nice lengthen the chest, so that she torque course was another like pivotal kind of critical point, in my own personal growth, to understand just an awareness of tension and how emotion coexist at push ups, great examples, push ups, again, just varying how you’re pulling your hands together, pushing them apart, are you trolling for an external rotation of the hands. They’re not actually externally rotating, but you’re applying that force to change what you’re doing.
Michael Hughes
I am not looking at like the certifications that I got that like were the transformational pieces, and I got to put my own into to like the one again, I think we all have, you know, the fellowship that we all have was certainly you a root ball, in a sense, right? But it’s not really a certification. It’s so much more than that. That’s so it’s a fellowship, it’s sounds like a doctorate course, it’s a grad course almost in a sense. But mine was it’s changed. Its its its name, but I’m using its official name. Now it’s called the F S T T functional soft tissue transformation. And that was I’m gonna butcher his last name. It’s I can’t say ever but Lenny Pacino, I said it right. When ice calm, Lenny, Lenny, Lenny P, one of the most brilliant guys that I know about the soft tissue, but really understanding that understand the of what the cell of the body listens to its communication style. And its physics, it just goes down, like I say over and over again. But like, we’re engineers, that’s what we are. We’re just human engineers. And we have to understand all the science that goes into it. But we got to build a house a building a road waterway on different applications every single day. And it changes every single day. So understand, what’s the commonality of the language of the human body, and how to understand tension forces and, and the gray structure of the cell, you know, like all these different aspects, like wow, it goes that deep, and yet does go that deep, you don’t have to be some crazy physicist, Elon Musk to figure this thing out. It the information is there. But it’s having having the glasses that you say to understand it is there I kind of understand just a little bit to impact so many people in Mammoth ways. And that’s, that was a really cool course to understand. If you can’t control the soft tissue of the human body, then you’re going to struggle, doesn’t mean you can’t get there. But it’s gonna you’re gonna go slower, you’re going to have this this, like, what am I not understanding. And it’s that ground substance, you know, deep within the body that, yeah, you go to head and try to do that movement, you don’t have the range of motion through that connective tissue, then just keep trying harder, and changing, you know, I mean, eventually you can you can get there, I really believe it, but you can get there so much more fast, faster. Anyways. Any final final thoughts.
CJ
Just keep exploring, don’t, don’t get caught limiting yourself or do note, catch yourself limiting yourself is what I mean to say, catch yourself, putting yourself in that limitation in that box, because you should at some point, limit yourself so that you just don’t do a bunch of random crazy stuff, and then not being able to relay that to somebody that you’re working with. I think it’s different for an athlete versus a coach like a coach, you need to be able to filter the information that you’ve learned in a way that is easily digestible by the clients that you work with. Because you might know a ton of stuff but if you just start releasing all this educational stuff that doesn’t even connect or help somebody understand their situation. They’re part of their movement and their life. You’re gonna end up steering people away or You might keep some people because they just are interested in what you have to say. But if you’re not seeing transformation and gains and results from the people that you’re working with, with the certifications that you’re applying to, chances are you’re not critically thinking enough to solve what’s going on. And maybe that’s not your place. Maybe you just want to give a workout and and train it. But I think I think that fulfilling side comes through having these deeper conversations and learning together through movement through conversations through trying out new certifications that may be a little bit different than what you know. Yeah.
Goose
Yeah, piggybacking off that, keep exploring and just integrate. I think one thing that CJ did really well or does really well is just like wholeheartedly diving into something, like if you’re going over may stuff takes a week off of working out and just dives into his own personal practice of doing may stuff. Maybe you don’t implement it into like your clients stuff just yet. But fully immersing yourself into something, are you saying put yourself in that box where you are now limiting your own personal practice, not for your clients, but again, for your your personal thing. And just dive into a piece of equipment certification and just implement, implement, implement with what you are doing, as the individual come out of that with a better understanding, and now kind of disperse that throughout your practice. Now you have these other tools, these other options, but immerse just dive in and get lost in it for a little bit. Just make sure you come back out.
CJ
That brought that to my mind, do you have a thing as Isaac Newton, there’s quite a few people that said this, but if I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. And we need to give respect to where it is do you know if you if you go learn something from an organization that helped you is a stepping stone in your own growth as a coach give credit, like say, This is what I learned and call out to if there’s something that’s been limiting in your education, there’s no blame to be put on others, it’s only on ourselves to think deeper. So if you’ve learned something from a certain organization, or a certain group of people remember the work that they’ve put into what they’ve created. And yes, it’s it’s there may be some dogma in there, and people want to want to hold on to what they’ve created. But you as the coach going and taking that certification, you don’t need to limit yourself to just that certification, but create an understanding of the vision that you’ve developed from taking that course, understanding what it is that you’ve gained, and where you might be going and help other coaches get on that same wavelength. We’re all standing on the shoulders of giants and by the success of our predecessors let’s keep keep helping each other out.
Michael Hughes
Yeah, I’ve perfectly said perfectly said this for clients listening if you are a client of a trainers for trainers listening. And just for people to curious about the movement industry is that we are desiring to push the human being further to live happier, to experience this, this this life that we have, and we only have one body in this life, this is it. And you got to take care of as much as you possibly can. We all desire to do that. Some of us need greater pushes. Some of us need greater education, some of us need accountability. But if you’re a trainer listening, stand on someone’s shoulders, don’t do it on your own, find an education source that that gets you learning and then find Education Source that pushes you can hold you accountable, where you can ask real life questions in real time. And really provides a mentorship and internship a transformational process because if you only learn from a textbook from videos of pre recorded things, you’re just it’s going to be a limiting factor because there are Theo’s depends inside little case studies, corner cases that I believe really transforms growth and unlock it’s the key, the key is a very small thing to a massive safe door. Like that’s the key that I really believe people need to have. So seek those out. Reach out to us at info at gymnazo.com If you have questions about what certifications do we love, what things that we would say maybe yes or no to or guidance on. What I love about our team is we have I don’t know I’m gonna go several dozen different educational sources that we have pulled from of the past that have made this collective of six Prakash calling on nine different trainers and how we operate and how we’ve commanded. I don’t want to use the word risk results but just this this evolutionary mindset methodology that is super unique and I’ve never seen it before. And that’s why we’re sharing it through our MDMC certification course. Because it’s not the only one. It’s just, we believe it’s the one that has built the foundation that has gained so many other coaches success. So, from a client perspective, Challenger trainers, I really believe that don’t just accept what is there. ask them the question, why, and see what happens not to disrespect. But just to find out because I really believe that our industry needs to be pushed. And the consumer is the one who pushes and we’re still in a capital, capitalistic society, right? consumer mindset consumer understanding consumer education is what drives the marketplace. So push us, please. Because everyone benefits.
CJ
Good. Fantastic.
Michael Hughes
All right. Thanks, guys.
CJ
Thank you, dope.
Michael Hughes
Hey all. Hope you guys enjoyed today’s episode. And if you did, please share it with your fitness obsessed friends and peers who are also navigating this world of fitness and trying to succeed the trends and misinformation. As you guys can see, this podcast is basically a masterclass for trainers wanting to level up in their coaching skills, and their fitness business model. We launched this in 2020. Because you and your fitness tribe deserve to see an unfiltered look at all the aspects of what it takes to stand out as a next generation coach, and build a successful fitness business. So share far and wide. And please, when you do do me a favor, take a screenshot of this screen and share it to your social media accounts and use the hashtag Gymnazo podcast that’s hashtag Gymnazo podcast that way we can see you and share your posts with our audience. And finally, when you’re ready, go to the next level as a coach or in your business. And to reach more people, please go check out gymnazoedu.com. We have put together the best 90 Day coaching program on the market for trainers wanting to become a masterful practitioner and build a business that gives them the freedom and impact. So let us help you do just that. We have online training and one on one coaching to guide you through a full 90 Day certification. We even get you training our clients live because it’s always better to work out your kinks on someone else’s clients than yours. But we promise you this, your clients will be blown away by the transformation our program will help you make you’ll be masterful at a whole new level and part of an incredible community of coaches worldwide, taking their skills to the next level. So if you thought this episode had some fire to it, and inspired you to take action, wait until you see what we deliver on this program. So just go to gymnazoedu.com. And we’ll see you on the other side. Remember that turning your passion for fitness into transformation and sustainable business is critical to reaching the people and lives you were put on earth to help it matters and truly can make an impact in other people’s lives. So hope you do that. Keep sharing a passion and we’ll talk to you soon.
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